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Clemson, @Virginia

SeanMayTriedToEatMe

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Duke gets one day to prepare for a program no one cares about and then visits the program that has arguably been the best in the sport for a while.


Clemson - Saturday, February 11, 1:00pm ET, ACCN/ESPN3

No coach, player or fan could have been bothered to think about Clemson basketball in the one day Duke had after the win over North Carolina. That includes the dozen or so Clemson basketball fans who are still probably celebrating their football team's national title.

Nevertheless, it would be nice for Duke to try their best to win this game. Clemson is certainly good enough to beat Duke anywhere.


At Virginia - Wednesday, February 15, 9:00pm ET, ESPN2

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Finally, we arrive at Duke's most difficult game of the season, at least on paper. Duke has shown over the past few seasons, in head-to-head matchups and NCAA Tournament performances, that their talent advantage can overcome the consistently superior play of Virginia.

1. Virginia has been the most efficient team in college basketball over the past four seasons but has very little to show for it.

Virginia's adjusted overall efficiency is currently #2 this season on kenpom.com. They finished #3 last season, in 2016. They finished #6 in 2015 and #4 in 2014. If you believe adjusted overall efficiency is the best objective measure of a team's performance, then no one else comes close to Virginia's consistent objective dominance over that time.

In terms of subjective perception, Virginia doesn't come close to Duke. On Virginia's best day, with a 19-0 record and playing at home in 2015, up double digits very late in the game, Duke's superior talent can simply flip a switch and burn down the arena with a historically great explosion. Duke is 3-1 against Virginia over the past four seasons. Virginia has made it to one Sweet Sixteen and one Elite Eight over that time. Duke has made it to one Sweet Sixteen and won one national title over that time. Hardly anyone cares about the ACC Tournament today as anything more than a tuneup for the NCAA Tournament.

In the battle between analytics nerds and eye testers, there might be no greater peacemaker than Virginia. You could make the case that the NCAA Tournament is such an inherently random and chaotic process for crowning a champion that Virginia has simply been the victim of bad luck. You could also make the case that Virginia's lack of 5-star talent or NBA lottery picks, the kind of talent we so often see on the rosters of national champions, is the main reason for Virginia simply not holding up with matchup problems against a gauntlet of more talented teams in the NCAA Tournament or against Duke head-to-head. It seems most people would agree that both perspectives are valid to some extent.

This season for Virginia may be no different than their past few. They again lack elite talent, with no players projected on DraftExpress.com to be drafted after the season. Tony Bennett did just pull in his best recruiting class at Virginia, but the only consensus 4-star or better recruits on Virginia's roster are freshmen, and none of them were ranked in the top 25 in their class by any recruiting service.

2. Virginia slows the game down as much as possible and has some severe deficiencies on offense, but their defense is pretty much great in every way.

Watching Virginia play is not fun. Playing against them must be torture. The pace of their games is as slow as it gets - they have the second slowest adjusted tempo (possessions per game) in the country and the longest average possession length in the country. They get back on defense and make sure their opponents have as few transition opportunities as possible. They force opponents to try to score against their typically suffocating halfcourt defense.

Tony Bennett inherited a bad Virginia team when he took over the program in 2010. In the 2010 and 2011 seasons, Virginia's defense ranked #74 and #75, respectively, in adjusted efficiency. Aside from those two seasons, Bennett has never coached a defense outside the top 25, including three seasons at Washington State. Virginia's defense has finished #7 or better for the past four seasons.

How does Bennett do it on defense? It's no secret that Virginia packs the paint and emphasizes rim protection over denying 3-point attempts. Their defense is allowing 51.4% FG on shots around the rim, according to hoop-math.com, good for #18 in the country. Compare this with Duke allowing a poor 60.4% FG on shots around the rim, which is #207 in the country. Most of the teams ahead of Virginia in this stat play a much easier schedule, and the stat is not adjusted for competition. Virginia is one of the elite rim protecting teams in the country, and their sacrifice to accomplish this is conceding a lot of 3-point attempts - 38.1% of their opponents' shots are 3s, which puts Virginia at #227 in the country in denying 3-point attempts. Compare this with Duke allowing only a 29.5% opponent 3pt attempt rate, good for #16 in the country. The defensive approaches of Duke and Virginia are as diametrically different as it gets in the ACC.

On offense, Virginia has some holes. They are one of the absolute worst teams in the country at getting to the line, with the #344 FT attempt rate. They are around the national average at offensive rebounding, with the #176 offensive rebounding rate. Basically, if Virginia isn't making first shots from the field, they're not going to score on many trips down the court. Of course, they're great at making shots from the field. Five players in Virginia's rotation are shooting above 40% from 3 on the season. Six are shooting above 55% from 2. Somehow find a way to make them miss and you win.

3. Virginia's rotation is deep, with balanced minutes and usage.

10 players normally get meaningful playing time for Virginia. Most of these players are uninteresting. Here are the Virginia players that should have the biggest impact on this game:

PG London Perrantes, 6-2 197, senior
Perrantes has followed the typical 4-year path for unranked recruits at Virginia, becoming their key player as a senior. He plays the most minutes (31 mpg) and has the highest usage (23%), except for Marial Shayok, who ruins many offensive possessions similar to Jayson Tatum for Duke. Perrantes is a good 3pt shooter, at 41% this season, but his 3pt shooting has been highly erratic from season to season - 44% as a freshman, 32% as a sophomore, 49% as a junior, 41% as a senior - so it's fair to assume his shooting is inconsistent from game to game as well. Perrantes plays bad defense by Virginia standards - he's the worst among their 10 rotation players in defensive rating and 2nd worst in DBPM. He's also one of the best players in the country at avoiding fouls on defense (1.3 fouls committed per 40 minutes) and has a low steal rate (1.4%), so it's not clear from his stats what he actually does when Virginia is on defense.

PF Isaiah Wilkins, 6-7 225, junior
Wilkins' advanced metrics are off the charts. According to sports-reference.com, Wilkins has an offensive rating of 127, a defensive rating of 85 and a BPM of 16.0. The 16.0 BPM is absurd. Compare it with Jahlil Okafor's 10.9 BPM in 2015 and Kyrie Irving's 14.3 BPM in 2011. On a team loaded with defense, Wilkins has the 2nd best defensive rating and best DBPM. Some of his value must come from blocks and steals - he's a great shotblocker for a PF (7.0% block rate) and generates plenty of turnovers (2.8% steal rate). He's shooting 4-7 from 3 on the season, which raises the question of why he doesn't take more of them, and he's shooting 61% from 2.

SG Kyle Guy, 6-3 165, freshman
Guy (pictured above, not being hated by anyone), one of Bennett's most hyped recruits ever, came into college with a reputation for being a shooter and has not disappointed. Guy doesn't do much at a high level other than shoot 3s without turning the ball over, but he does both of those things extremely well. He's shooting 48% from 3 and his 10% turnover rate is even lower than Luke Kennard's 11%, which leads Duke. His offensive rating is "only" 120 because he's a poor shooter inside the arc (45% 2pt) and not as good as might be expected at the line (77% FT).

Duke should be heavy underdogs at Virginia but, as always, Duke will have a significant talent advantage. The main questions for Duke, which have been the main questions all season, are whether all that talent will come together in a positive way and whether the talent will be good enough or trusted enough by the coaches to step foot on the court in the 2nd half of a close game. On the other side, we know that Bennett will maximize the effectiveness of his talent.
 
Limit the sloppy turnovers against UVA, pls. No need to make their D any more effective than it already is.
 
Line should be Virginia by 4.5-6.5 points. Duke should be able to stay close due to the slow pace of the game, then hope for Allen and Kennard to come through with 3s at the end. I wouldn't be opposed to Duke taking 50+ 3s in this game in 60 possessions without even trying to work the ball inside.
 
Fav thing is that the Clemson part is posted after the game. Didn't read UVA part because I already know we are going to lose.
 
I don't really understand how UVA allows so many 3 point attempts (and if their game last night is any indication, some really good looks) but is also very good at 3pt FG% defense (35th in the country in this). Still, I agree that offensively it makes sense to fire away from deep.

I don't know how a really slow pace would impact Duke's offense but you'd have to think that Duke is a top 20 defense (maybe even better?) when you basically get to subtract out most transition opportunities. It's true that missed threes can lead to this kind of thing, but just doesn't seem like UVA ever wants to run. From a defensive perspective, because of pace and because UVA is really a jump shooting team, this is seemingly a good matchup for the Duke defense stylistically. I'm definitely far more worried about our offense than our defense in this one.
 
I think Bennett chooses to play with fire. His teams don't always make opponents miss from 3, despite consistently being great at defense overall.

Last season, Virginia was #170 in opponent 3pt% and they gave up a lot of 3pt attempts as usual. They still finished top 10 in defense because it's simply more important to prevent layups than to prevent 3s. It's more important to prevent layups than any other aspect of defense.

In his last season at Washington State, they were #262 in opponent 3pt% yet finished #11 in defense. In 2014, Virginia was #65 in opponent 3pt% yet finished #4 in defense.

I think this is all part of working with the little talent he has. Prevent layups and hope all season that more talented teams don't go off with open 3s. K goes for glory with his defensive philosophy - step 1 is preventing 3s and then step 2 is rotating well enough to prevent layups also. His personnel just hasn't been there in recent years, because they're not upperclassmen with the defensive awareness to get step 2 right. Anyone can run out at the arc and prevent 3s, just like anyone can stand near the rim and prevent layups. K tries for the ideal of having both. Bennett settles for one.
 
My uneducated guess would be that the slow pace and deliberately making teams work on defense probably tires legs out more than any other style of offensive play. Even teams that run and gun, some players may not hustle back and save their legs that way. It probably wears on shooting as the game wears on.
 
SeanMay's point is much more empirically evidenced based than what I just wrote.
 
If you look at the top of the defensive rankings for FG% at rim allowed on hoop-math.com, it follows this theory pretty well. There are a lot of strong defensive teams overall on kenpom, which you would expect since FG% at rim has a direct impact on defensive efficiency, but there are also a lot of offense/defense splitters who do much better at defense than offense - these teams should theoretically lack the talent to be great at offense, but they're able to be much better on defense because of a packline philosophy that settles for stopping layups rather than chasing the ideal of stopping 3s and layups.

Top 10 defenses for FG% at rim (kenpom offense/defense ranking in parentheses):

1. UCF (205/23)
2. Cincinnati (41/11)
3. Gonzaga (4/4)
4. St. Mary's (13/43) - against the theory
5. UMass (232/60)
6. Wichita St. (20/20)
7. East Carolina (334/55)
8. UConn (157/54)
9. UC Irvine (252/79)
10. Oregon (32/14)

When you're bringing in the talent K has been over the past several years, it makes some sense to try to achieve the ultimate defense. It came together all at once in 2015. And maybe a team like Virginia is too prone to 3pt barrages in the one-off NCAA Tournament for packline to be a viable strategy if the end goal is always to win the title. I think Pitino's teams come closest to achieving the ideal defense, but even Louisville has generally slanted toward preventing layups while allowing more 3s, and their sacrifice is playing bad offensive players.
 
StopThePumpFakesShav said:
I don't really understand how UVA allows so many 3 point attempts (and if their game last night is any indication, some really good looks) but is also very good at 3pt FG% defense (35th in the country in this). Still, I agree that offensively it makes sense to fire away from deep.

Having watched the Hoos a fair bit over the years, my eye-test guess is that many of the three pointers taken against them are late in the clock/out of rhythm. I'd guess most teams try to run an offense, and when it fails, have to chuck it up. Maybe one of the reasons Duke seems to have had good success is that we often just chuck it up without even trying to run a set.

I watched the VT game last night, and there is no way we should lose to UVA. They are the definition of modestly talented guys who collectively make good decisions. No Harris, Anderson, Brogdon, etc. Not a single guy - even Perrantes - who comes close to making you think 'That dude is a PLAYER'. Of course, our insanely talented group prides themselves on bad decisions, so we'll lose.
 
Against UNC it was rebounding that was key. Duke out rebounded them and won. Against Virginia turnovers are key. Limit turnovers and instead create assists and Duke wins. Double digit TO's will not be good.
 
UVa will be a real test for Tatum, IMO. He certainly won't have 20 foot driving lanes to the rim like he did against UNC. If he can hit some 3's in rhythm, grab some boards, play some D and not play hero ball on offense, it will be a massive leap for him. I'm concerned about Kennard in this game too. A lot of his forays into the paint will be met with 5 bodies instead of 2.
 
SeanMayTriedToEatMe said:
If you look at the top of the defensive rankings for FG% at rim allowed on hoop-math.com, it follows this theory pretty well. There are a lot of strong defensive teams overall on kenpom, which you would expect since FG% at rim has a direct impact on defensive efficiency, but there are also a lot of offense/defense splitters who do much better at defense than offense - these teams should theoretically lack the talent to be great at offense, but they're able to be much better on defense because of a packline philosophy that settles for stopping layups rather than chasing the ideal of stopping 3s and layups.

Top 10 defenses for FG% at rim (kenpom offense/defense ranking in parentheses):

1. UCF (205/23)
2. Cincinnati (41/11)
3. Gonzaga (4/4)
4. St. Mary's (13/43) - against the theory
5. UMass (232/60)
6. Wichita St. (20/20)
7. East Carolina (334/55)
8. UConn (157/54)
9. UC Irvine (252/79)
10. Oregon (32/14)

When you're bringing in the talent K has been over the past several years, it makes some sense to try to achieve the ultimate defense. It came together all at once in 2015. And maybe a team like Virginia is too prone to 3pt barrages in the one-off NCAA Tournament for packline to be a viable strategy if the end goal is always to win the title. I think Pitino's teams come closest to achieving the ideal defense, but even Louisville has generally slanted toward preventing layups while allowing more 3s, and their sacrifice is playing bad offensive players.

To further SMTTEM's theory - kenpom has done a number of articles showing that 3pt% defense doesn't really exist - teams can suppress the number of 3's their opponents take, but have no reliable impact on the opponent's % from 3 - these article shows that offenses dictate 83% of the variance in their success in 3pt% vice a 50/50 split in control over 2pt% and that offenses only control 71% of the variance in their 3pt attempts.

http://kenpom.com/blog/offense-vs-defen ... ercentage/
http://kenpom.com/blog/offense-vs-defen ... ercentage/
http://kenpom.com/blog/offense-vs-defen ... -attempts/

Duke has been in the top 20 nationally in limiting 3pt attempts each of the last 6 years but has been in the top 20 in limiting 3pt% only twice - we were ranked 147 last year and 13th in 2015...

When you compare at the top 10 defenses for 2%, 3%, and 3attempts with their defensive kenpom ranking in parens...

2% 3% 3 attempts
1. UCF (23) S. Carolina (1) Weber St (246)
2. Cincinnati (11) Morgan St (211) St. Francis (250)
3. Gonzaga (4) Louisville (2) Incarnate Word (335)
4. St. Mary's (43) Robert Morris (78) UNCW (179)
5. UMass (60) N. Mexico St (106) Mt St Mary's (141)
6. Wichita St. (20) Nevada (128) Toledo (263)
7. East Carolina (55) Gonzaga (3) St. Mary's (43)
8. UConn (54) Col of Char (46) Boise (97)
9. UC Irvine (79) Duke (30) Ill-Chicago (245)
10. Oregon (14) St Mary's (43) Cal-Poly (314)
11. Duke (30)

The top 10 2pt% defense teams are all in the top 80 in overall defense but only 1 of them is a top 10 overall defense team.
The top 10 3pt% defense teams contain the #1, #2, and #3 defenses, but also includes 3 teams outside the top 100.
The top 10 teams at suppressing 3pt attempts fall mostly outside the top 200 and only includes 1 team in the top 90!!!

Coach K's consistent focus on suppressing 3pt attempts (Top 20 each of the last 6 years!!!) really does not look like a strategy that is effective for any school.

I think that what is going on here is that the teams with sub 200 defenses who allow so few 3pt attempts aren't really suppressing 3pt attempts so much as giving up a bunch of uncontested layups - why take an open 40% 3 when you can take an open 80% layup? - but I am not good enough at math to prove this...

Also, all hail St Mary's as the only school to show up in all 3 top 10 lists - the mythical perfectly balanced good defense - they must give up a ton of offensive rebounds and/or commit a ton of fouls to have a 43 ranked defense while being top 10 in all three categories above...

Edit - I hate that this site is not WYSIWYG - anyone know how to clean up the columns on my chart so they are easier to read???
 
Will be interesting to follow UVA's tournament successes in the next 4-5 years. Right now, we only have 3 years of data in which they were great in the regular season although it feels like it's been 5-6. This year will likely be the 4th year in a row that they begin the NCAAT as a top 5 KP team. Last year they began at #1.

They were up 37-21 early in the 2H against Syracuse in last year's Elite 8 game. And they were up 15 with 9 minutes to go, good for a 98.6% win probability. They gave up 47 second half points to the 50th best offense in the country. Outscored 31-11 in the last ten minutes. The game was 64 possessions.
 
UVa already has a few late game collapses this season as well. Too lazy to look up the stats...
 
Article title on r/cbb said they had the worst first-half-to-second-half scoring differential in the country. Probably something to do with them playing great with the lead, but helpless when they need to catch up? I didn't read it. In fact i'm not sure why I referred to it then. Really, I didn't even need to make this post at all, but I did because I like hearing my self speak, or seeing myself type, in this case.
 

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