Game Thread [2022-23] at Virginia

[rome8180]

I believe our best lineup in the second half was Proctor, Whitehead, Grandison, Mitchell, and Young. I would have liked to see Jon stick with that even longer. He had Whitehead and Grandison in each corner spacing the floor and Proctor orchestrating. That's what led to Whitehead's 10 points in a row.

I get that Roach had a great first half, and that you want to give two of your best offensive players a chance down the stretch, but I wonder what would have happened if we stuck with that. Granted, they were starting to attack Young. Maybe just sub him out for Flip or Lively but leave everyone else in?

 

[kane]

^ I do remember thinking during the game that Jon was leaving Young in too long. Virginia had clearly found a way to target him on offence. Flip will likely never have a worse game is his life. If not for that and all the unforced turnovers, the refs would have never had the chance to look like dumbasses at the end of the game

 

[2001Dukechamps]

 

[physicsfactor]

Did Hansbrough go back to high school after his NBA career? That’s by far the most articulate speech I’ve ever heard from him.

 

[sivartrenrag]

Being the ACC all-time leading scorer, national champion, and NPOY but branding yourself primarily on how much you hate DOOK

 

[Rollins]

Being the ACC all-time leading scorer, national champion, and NPOY but branding yourself primarily on how much you hate DOOK

it's the uniting orientation of all unc fans. they've hated their team and coaches for 85% of the time the last 3 seasons.

 

[rome8180]

I don't buy into "ref conspiracies," and I don't think there's much evidence in this case since we've done very well against the spread in games Lee Cassell has reffed. But it is worth noting that he had a tweet saying "Down with the Dukies" in 2012 (which I'm sure has already been mentioned). He was definitely already a ref then because I found a Kentucky database that showed him reffing their games back to 2003.

Also, fwiw, he was one of the officials in UVA's bullshit win over Auburn in the Final Four. He was not "involved in" the no-call on Ty Jerome's double dribble or the foul call on Guy's 3pt shot though.

I'm not signing up for a Virginia board to read the rest of this, however.

 

[DrKlahn]

People overthink it when they claim that refs are motivated by some sort of bias. The question here is not about that at all, but instead whether the refs have the courage to make an unpopular call. Or, in this case, to follow through with an unpopular call, since one of the refs actually did make the unpopular call on the spot!

So it's not really relevant whether he worked other Duke or UVA games. I'd be looking at how he handles late game reviews in general. And I don't know what I'd find, but Saturday was a big time case of cowering to some perceived pressure not to make a decisive call for Duke.

 

[Rollins]

I don't buy into "ref conspiracies," and I don't think there's much evidence in this case since we've done very well against the spread in games Lee Cassell has reffed. But it is worth noting that he had a tweet saying "Down with the Dukies" in 2012 (which I'm sure has already been mentioned). He was definitely already a ref then because I found a Kentucky database that showed him reffing their games back to 2003.

Also, fwiw, he was one of the officials in UVA's bullshit win over Auburn in the Final Four. He was not "involved in" the no-call on Ty Jerome's double dribble or the foul call on Guy's 3pt shot though.

I'm not signing up for a Virginia board to read the rest of this, however.

View attachment 1877

jesus christ. this motherfucker.

 

[rome8180]

People overthink it when they claim that refs are motivated by some sort of bias. The question here is not about that at all, but instead whether the refs have the courage to make an unpopular call. Or, in this case, to follow through with an unpopular call, since one of the refs actually did make the unpopular call on the spot!

So it's not really relevant whether he worked other Duke or UVA games. I'd be looking at how he handles late game reviews in general. And I don't know what I'd find, but Saturday was a big time case of cowering to some perceived pressure not to make a decisive call for Duke.

Yeah, there have been studies showing that refs do tend to favor the home team. It's just basic psychology when you think about it. No one wants to get booed by 10s of thousands of people.

I doubt the refs are even conscious of the effect the crowd is having on them. But I highly doubt that call gets overturned in Cameron (or even on a neutral with a 50/50 crowd).

 

[LastHearth]

It's not just that no-one wants to get booed. We have a tendency to want to agree with the crowd, even if the crowd is completely wrong. Because it's an inbuild survival trait. You disagree with the majority of people around you at your own peril.

 

[DurhamSon]

It's not just that no-one wants to get booed. We have a tendency to want to agree with the crowd, even if the crowd is completely wrong. Because it's an inbuild survival trait. You disagree with the majority of people around you at your own peril.

This is why obdurate contrarians are truly God’s chosen stock on earth

 

[DrKlahn]

It's not just about getting booed. If you make a call that essentially decides the game, you are going to be in the spotlight for a few days. If Duke is the team that wins because of it, it will be brighter and longer.

Of course, by being extremely wrong, these guys got themselves in the spotlight anyway.

 

[bdotling]

^ I do remember thinking during the game that Jon was leaving Young in too long. Virginia had clearly found a way to target him on offence. Flip will likely never have a worse game is his life. If not for that and all the unforced turnovers, the refs would have never had the chance to look like dumbasses at the end of the game

I agree. Kihei abused Young on multiple occasions

 

[LastHearth]

Because Virginia is a veteran team, and veteran teams knows how to play in ways that young teams don't. They will much quicker identify the other teams weakness, and know how to adjust their play to attack the weakness.
Young team like Duke can carry out their coach's pre-game plan, but they don't know how to adjust on the fly nearly as well. K was probably able to help on that front by calling out adjustments from the sidelines, but Scheyer is not there yet either as far as that is concerned due to his own lack of experience.

 

[Inveigle]

It's not just about getting booed. If you make a call that essentially decides the game, you are going to be in the spotlight for a few days. If Duke is the team that wins because of it, it will be brighter and longer.

Of course, by being extremely wrong, these guys got themselves in the spotlight anyway.

And who the fuck would want to be an official anyway?

 

[rome8180]

I think you guys took the part where I said "getting booed" way too literally. I thought it would be obvious that I meant being hated by thousands of people.

 

[physicsfactor]

I think you guys took the part where I said "getting booed" way too literally. I thought it would be obvious that I meant being hated by thousands of people.

SAY WHAT YOU MEAN!!!

 

[rome8180]

It's not just that no-one wants to get booed. We have a tendency to want to agree with the crowd, even if the crowd is completely wrong. Because it's an inbuild survival trait. You disagree with the majority of people around you at your own peril.

This is why obdurate contrarians are truly God’s chosen stock on earth

This is why I hate Giannis, Damian Lillard, Steph Curry, and Ja Morant. It's my duty as a contrarian who listens to podcasts that fellate them all day long. It's also why I defend players like Harden and Trae Young.

 

[best4heisman]

Also we have to stop pretending that Ryan Young isn't awful. I don't care about the plus minus. It's like having a team manager out there.

This was probably the worst imaginable matchup for him along with a theoretical 2013 era FSU team, and it’s true he has a low ceiling relatively speaking, but this take completely ignores the first half of the season where we weren’t getting anything from Lively, and Young’s ferocious rebounding was keeping our heads above water defensively while he was contributing in offensive rebound outbacks and very quick up and under moves when our guards were producing very little. And this was rightly reflected in the stats @childress22 is tracking, along when he still has good games and goes by unremarked

Ok in fairness this was mostly just a salty chat message after an infuriating loss, inspired by a bad missed layup from Young and a play or two where he offered no resistance at the rim. Young is an elite offensive rebounder and surprisingly strong finisher but he really fails my eye test and I tend to get irrationally angry watching him. I had the same thing with Marshall Plumlee.

It seems that Lively's skillset is bound to scale better against most good teams and I was surprised to see the minutes distribution on Saturday. But I only caught the last five minutes of the game, and apparently Young was good prior to that.