Duke Coaching

[bdotling]

To add onto that, just because they (Flip, Proctor, Mitchell) were returning players and not freshmen, they were expected to play like upperclassmen. They were very much not that. Because we're so used to guys leaving after one year, I think actually having a bunch of players back warped the expectations a bit. As upperclassmen, I believe all three would continue to improve... I would take any of them back in a heartbeat. We can't both acknowledge that we need an older team and then want our primary guys, who will be upperclassmen next year, to leave.

yes but it is all relative to an environment where team continuity doesn’t exist anymore due to the transfer portal. Perhaps it was overweighted but that plus with how the team felt like it was improving at the end of the previous season felt big. And while we are playing more old men, there’s a counter argument around team chemistry etc when patch working transfers together like that.

I’m sure a lot of us had hopes that because the key cogs generally knew how to play together already there would be some sort of synergistic effect on top of individual improvement.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Something worth noting: Despite all the frustration, we’ve actually been better at going relatively deep in the tournament lately. 4 Elite 8s since 2018. We made 3 total between 2005 and 2017, but won the title twice!

We’d all feel so much better if we’d won any of the 3 Elite 8 games we dropped in 2018/2019/2024, let alone multiple, or won it all in 2022. The E8 has kind of become what the S16 was throughout most of the 2000s. Keep making it that far with frequency, and more Final Fours and yes, titles, will come.

 

[Rollins]

imagine how we'd all feel if we were coming off what unc was dealing with after year two of hubert? the massive chemistry issues and disgusting lack of buy in from veterans.

i've been thinking about the @Pantone287 post a few days back about jon's overemphasis on being a players coach leaving him a little ham tied with roster flexibility. i think we're in agreement that jon being able to reel back and tinker with the formula here is a good spot to be in rather than needing to let the reins go because he's holding on too tight. jon's desire for this to be a player led program is the right road to be on.

not to sound like i have a bill simmons body language doctorate, but I haven't seen a crack in his demeanor in two years of observation. the mccain post game interview sunday was everything i needed to know in being confident of his interpersonal dealings.

 

[Rollins]

Something worth noting: Despite all the frustration, we’ve actually been better at going relatively deep in the tournament lately. 4 Elite 8s since 2018. We made 3 total between 2005 and 2017, but won the title twice!

We’d all feel so much better if we’d won any of the 3 Elite 8 games we dropped in 2018/2019/2024, let alone multiple, or won it all in 2022. The E8 has kind of become what the S16 was throughout most of the 2000s. Keep making it that far with frequency, and more Final Fours and yes, titles, will come.

2018 and 19 felt like complete chokes where as the ending on sunday was a 6th year 330 lb. video game boss going juggernaut mode.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Something worth noting: Despite all the frustration, we’ve actually been better at going relatively deep in the tournament lately. 4 Elite 8s since 2018. We made 3 total between 2005 and 2017, but won the title twice!

We’d all feel so much better if we’d won any of the 3 Elite 8 games we dropped in 2018/2019/2024, let alone multiple, or won it all in 2022. The E8 has kind of become what the S16 was throughout most of the 2000s. Keep making it that far with frequency, and more Final Fours and yes, titles, will come.

2018 and 19 felt like complete chokes where as the ending on sunday was a 6th year 330 lb. video game boss going juggernaut mode.

I don't fully agree with this. Kansas was our #1 seed in 2018 and Michigan St a #2 seed, against two Hall of Fame coaches. In that context I don't think it's fair to call those choke jobs. I also think there is some recent revisionist history on the Zion team where we view them as a juggernaut. They were until Zion got hurt. Everyone remembers that when he returned from his injury they did not become a juggernaut again. In both games Duke was favored by 3 points. Against NC State we were favored IIRC by 7. None of them should be viewed as choke jobs. 18 and 19 are just incredibly painful, whereas 2024 was a no-show. 1998 Kentucky is a choke, 2004 UCONN is a choke, IMO.

 

[Devilsforlife]

I thought K was really bad throughout both Elite 8 games in 2018 and 2019. No shame in losing to either of those teams, but we easily could’ve, and should’ve, won both with better coaching efforts.

 

[krsmith16]

Up 3, under a minute in both games IIRC.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Up 3, under a minute in both games IIRC.

UNC’s loss to Alabama felt so much like those games.

 

[childress22]

imagine how we'd all feel if we were coming off what unc was dealing with after year two of hubert? the massive chemistry issues and disgusting lack of buy in from veterans.

not to sound like i have a bill simmons body language doctorate, but I haven't seen a crack in his demeanor in two years of observation. the mccain post game interview sunday was everything i needed to know in being confident of his interpersonal dealings.

Also, it's obvious Jon is here. It's stable. He's not going to leave for another job, and he's not going to retire. And I think that coupled with the fact that his players like him, he comes across as personable, understanding, smart, and not an asshole will work great for him.

 

[rome8180]

imagine how we'd all feel if we were coming off what unc was dealing with after year two of hubert? the massive chemistry issues and disgusting lack of buy in from veterans.

i've been thinking about the @Pantone287 post a few days back about jon's overemphasis on being a players coach leaving him a little ham tied with roster flexibility. i think we're in agreement that jon being able to reel back and tinker with the formula here is a good spot to be in rather than needing to let the reins go because he's holding on too tight. jon's desire for this to be a player led program is the right road to be on.

not to sound like i have a bill simmons body language doctorate, but I haven't seen a crack in his demeanor in two years of observation. the mccain post game interview sunday was everything i needed to know in being confident of his interpersonal dealings.

I think in this era you kind of have to be a players' coach, especially if you're going to be recruiting elite high school players whose main objective is to make the NBA. Maybe if you're Kelvin Sampson you can run a boot camp because you're dealing with 24-year-olds who aren't potential lottery picks. Yelling at them is not going to negatively impact recruiting because portal players don't have the same priorities as Cooper Flagg. But I can see even Danny Hurley's style backfiring on him eventually. I've heard Sanogo was just done with his bullshit even though they won a title together.

 

[rome8180]

Even Coach K chilled out. Not sure I remember a "locking players out of the locker room" type of story after 2017.

 

[Devilsforlife]

In the 20 seasons since 2004, the following have been the points ours ended at:

National title: 2 (2010, 2015)
Final Four: 1 (2022)
Elite 8: 4 (2013, 2018, 2019, 2024)
Sweet 16: 5 (2005, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2016)
Second round: 3 (2008, 2017, 2023)
First round: 3 (2007, 2012, 2014)
Missed: 1 (2021)
No tournament: 1 (2020)

 

[rome8180]

I'm glad we're at least getting past the Sweet Sixteen more often lately. Four out of the last six Elite Eights is nice, even if we did go 1-3 in those games.

 

[Devilsforlife]

I'm glad we're at least getting past the Sweet Sixteen more often lately. Four out of the last six Elite Eights is nice, even if we did go 1-3 in those games.

We had a lot of trouble in the Sweet 16 for over a decade. Going back further, we also lost in it in 2000, 2002, and 2003. Went 3-7 overall in that round between 2000 and 2011.

 

[TS9]

I'm glad we're at least getting past the Sweet Sixteen more often lately. Four out of the last six Elite Eights is nice, even if we did go 1-3 in those games.

We had a lot of trouble in the Sweet 16 for over a decade. Going back further, we also lost in it in 2000, 2002, and 2003. Went 3-7 overall in that round between 2000 and 2011.

That long run of S16 losses was absolute ass. I remember how euphoric it felt when we finally broke through again against Purdue in 2010.

 

[rome8180]

I'm glad we're at least getting past the Sweet Sixteen more often lately. Four out of the last six Elite Eights is nice, even if we did go 1-3 in those games.

We had a lot of trouble in the Sweet 16 for over a decade. Going back further, we also lost in it in 2000, 2002, and 2003. Went 3-7 overall in that round between 2000 and 2011.

That long run of S16 losses was absolute ass. I remember how euphoric it felt when we finally broke through again against Purdue in 2010.

I think that's part of the reason why I enjoy watching that Purdue game from time to time. The first half is terrible. But the second half features Scheyer breaking out of his horrible slump. And Duke scored 46 in that half after only scoring 24 in the 1st.

 

[Devilsforlife]

The 2010 run was just the best. I think it’ll always be my favorite.

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

The Butler game is STILL tension filled.

 

[rome8180]

The 2010 run was just the best. I think it’ll always be my favorite.

It's the entire context that makes that title special:

1) Beloved upperclassmen
2) Long title drought by Duke's standards
3) Only one Final Four in that drought with none of the other teams even making an Elite Eight
4) Multiple high profile recruiting whiffs, including losing Harrison Barnes to UNC right after they'd won their second title in four years
5) Losing the most talented players from the previous year's team to the NBA (Gerald) or transfer (E Will)
6) The previous tournament struggles of the group that stayed at Duke
7) The feeling among the fanbase that our talent was good enough to win 25-30 games but was a long way from being able to compete with the best teams athletically
8) Being able to win just a year after UNC did, and doing it in the same year they had one of their most disappointing seasons ever

It did so much to establish Duke as still being the elite of the elite. It restored some competitive balance with a UNC program that had dominated us between 2007 and 2009. The 2015 title was also cool and unexpected. And it had its own narratives, but nothing quite as compelling as the combination of factors in 2010. It would have been on par with Scheyer winning it this year or something.

 

[Ladevil]

The 2010 run was just the best. I think it’ll always be my favorite.

Came out of nowhere