Duke Coaching

[bfactor]

Definitely agree with SMTTEM's take. Felt deep down it was absolutely over when they went down by six and Flip's 4th foul with like 8 min to play. And I've lived through the Gone in 54 Seconds game and other Duke miracles. Clearly wasn't going to happen, there was no suspense, no desire to really even watch further aside from basic masochism.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

I feel like these are the things that are actually telling about a coach, mainly revolving around the whole concept of adjustments. If Scheyer doesn’t hold the right cards and have the answers from the start, can he figure it out? That’s really hard to do in a single game - you hear more about coaches like Ty Lue doing this and Doc Rivers not doing this over a 7-game series in the NBA. But at some point, a good coach can prevent the inevitable within a game with a drastic flip of the switch on offense and/or defense.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Unrelated, I hate all the midrange. I don’t know why Scheyer stands for this when he was, for his time, one of the best ever at having a shot distribution like Harden. Maybe against Houston’s defense, you have to take whatever you can get. Not NC State.

Even the legendary Danny Hurley doesn’t have UConn among the super-elite at avoiding midrange, but they are 40th while Duke is 115th at lowest percentage of non-rim 2s this season. Scheyer doesn’t have to go to Oats extremes but 115th is gross for a program with the analytics resources of Duke.

That’s purely on the coach. Bench players who take more than the once in a blue moon wide open midrange and aren’t shooting 45%+ from there.

 

[rome8180]

I think part of this is personnel. Proctor can't finish at the rim and Roach's preferred shot is the midrange.

 

[childress22]

I think part of this is personnel. Proctor can't finish at the rim and Roach's preferred shot is the midrange.

True. Flip and Mitchell take some mid-range stuff, too.

 

[DUKERULES14]

I had a bad feeling when we were still up six when the 2nd half began and had several opportunities to extend the lead but didn't

 

[bdotling]

I feel like these are the things that are actually telling about a coach, mainly revolving around the whole concept of adjustments. If Scheyer doesn’t hold the right cards and have the answers from the start, can he figure it out? That’s really hard to do in a single game - you hear more about coaches like Ty Lue doing this and Doc Rivers not doing this over a 7-game series in the NBA. But at some point, a good coach can prevent the inevitable within a game with a drastic flip of the switch on offense and/or defense.

I think this also gets reflected in how once we lose the plot it gets lost really badly. Letting State score 50 in the second half (or 40 if you take out all the late game crap) is one example

 

[Devilsforlife]

I feel like these are the things that are actually telling about a coach, mainly revolving around the whole concept of adjustments. If Scheyer doesn’t hold the right cards and have the answers from the start, can he figure it out? That’s really hard to do in a single game - you hear more about coaches like Ty Lue doing this and Doc Rivers not doing this over a 7-game series in the NBA. But at some point, a good coach can prevent the inevitable within a game with a drastic flip of the switch on offense and/or defense.

I think this also gets reflected in how once we lose the plot it gets lost really badly. Letting State score 50 in the second half (or 40 if you take out all the late game crap) is one example

Getting shelled in the second half of tournament games goes all the way back to 2008 WV, I think? It’s happened so much over the last 16 years.

 

[DrKlahn]

K was the best ever at tone setting and game psychology/player psychology. You can’t expect anything other than an enormous drop off in that area.

 

[Slap the Floor]

K was the best ever at tone setting and game psychology/player psychology. You can’t expect anything other than an enormous drop off in that area.

You're right, and it's also probably the area of his coaching that is least recognized/appreciated. This is also probably why his coaching tree gets some criticism (although it looks a lot better lately with Collins and Capel bouncing back). That's not a skill that can be passed down, IMO.

 

[DrKlahn]

The things we took for granted with K are not coming back. The question is whether Jon (or the next guy or the guy after that) can bring enough of other things to the table.

 

[aiw]

K was the best ever at tone setting and game psychology/player psychology. You can’t expect anything other than an enormous drop off in that area.

You're right, and it's also probably the area of his coaching that is least recognized/appreciated.

Are you really drunk tonight?

 

[DrKlahn]

Not yet

 

[aiw]

Not you. The guy posting idiotic things.

 

[rome8180]

I already think Jon is a better defensive coach than late era K. So that's something he's bringing to the table. Unless it's all Jai Lucas, in which case we're fucked.

 

[DrKlahn]

I already think Jon is a better defensive coach than late era K. So that's something he's bringing to the table. Unless it's all Jai Lucas, in which case we're fucked.

Right, I think the idea is that Jon has studied the things that K delegated over the last 10-12 years. We are hoping that that is equally as important as K’s mastery of psychology (which, again, was the best ever!)

 

[childress22]

I think this also gets reflected in how once we lose the plot it gets lost really badly. Letting State score 50 in the second half (or 40 if you take out all the late game crap) is one example

I think you're right that that kind of stuff is a reflection. But this team was pretty good at not losing the plot, IMO, certainly compared to some other ones we had that got blown out more. If anything, they suffered more from shitty starts a few times

 

[aiw]

I already think Jon is a better defensive coach than late era K. So that's something he's bringing to the table. Unless it's all Jai Lucas, in which case we're fucked.

Right, I think the idea is that Jon has studied the things that K delegated over the last 10-12 years. We are hoping that that is equally as important as K’s mastery of psychology (which, again, was the best ever!)

But very unrecognized and underappreciated!

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Listening to his pressers and any other interviews he does, he already has the CEO coach role down at such an early stage. There’s no one the President, AD or Board of Trustees would rather have representing the university. I will give him that, and that’s a big deal. It would take a Louisville-like decline on the court for Duke to fire him.

I started saying the Ivy transfer stuff in my usual shitty tongue-in-cheek way, but now I firmly believe it’s true, and that’s unfortunate for Scheyer. The university isn’t going to allow him to take 3rd/4th/5th year basketball mercenaries from mediocre schools. It wasn’t even a given for K in the early 2010s to finally convince the university to allow a parade of OADs, and these are guys who will likely bring the university a whole lot of glory and prestige in the NBA, plus the improved applicant pool that comes with it. Guys like Nijel Pack do nothing for Duke but win an extra 1-2 regular season games, maybe if they pan out, and that’s never going to be worth whoring out the institution to the 60-80 year olds who run it. That’s a huge handicap for Scheyer to overcome.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Listening to his pressers and any other interviews he does, he already has the CEO coach role down at such an early stage. There’s no one the President, AD or Board of Trustees would rather have representing the university. I will give him that, and that’s a big deal. It would take a Louisville-like decline on the court for Duke to fire him.

I started saying the Ivy transfer stuff in my usual shitty tongue-in-cheek way, but now I firmly believe it’s true, and that’s unfortunate for Scheyer. The university isn’t going to allow him to take year 3/4/5 basketball mercenaries from mediocre schools. It wasn’t even a given for K in the early 2010s to finally convince the university to allow a parade of OADs, and these are guys who will likely bring the university a whole lot of glory and prestige in the NBA, plus the improved applicant pool that comes with it. Guys like Nijel Pack do nothing for Duke but win an extra 1-2 regular season games, and that’s never going to be worth whoring out the institution to the 60-80 year olds who run it.

The good news for Scheyer is that there are three players from IVY league schools ranked in the top 10 of the transfer portal.