Player Henry Coleman

[childress22]

I may try to some sort of stats work on this later, but Coleman's transfer based on looking for a bigger role sooner got me thinking about how well-worn -- or not well-worn -- the path is at Duke for players to go from outside of the Top 7 or so as a freshman to reliably starting as an upperclassman (at Duke, that is, rather than at Syracuse or Arizona State).

I can't think of many guys that have done it.

Grayson Allen is the most obvious example; even post-Sulaimon, he was basically the 8th man of 8 as a freshman.

Erik Meek, who went from about 125 total minutes as a freshman to starting 30 games as a senior is another. Then there's the recent example of Goldwire, although even he didn't start more than 50% of the team's games as a junior or senior.

There's also a few dudes like Carmen Wallace, Lee Melchionni, and Marty Clark who kind of topped out at 20 mpg and starting a handful of games.

Anyone else obvious I'm missing?

 

[savedukebball]

I may try to some sort of stats work on this later, but Coleman's transfer based on looking for a bigger role sooner got me thinking about how well-worn -- or not well-worn -- the path is at Duke for players to go from outside of the Top 7 or so as a freshman to reliably starting as an upperclassman (at Duke, that is, rather than at Syracuse or Arizona State).

I can't think of many guys that have done it.

Grayson Allen is the most obvious example; even post-Sulaimon, he was basically the 8th man of 8 as a freshman.

Erik Meek, who went from about 125 total minutes as a freshman to starting 30 games as a senior is another. Then there's the recent example of Goldwire, although even he didn't start more than 50% of the team's games as a junior or senior.

There's also a few dudes like Carmen Wallace, Lee Melchionni, and Marty Clark who kind of topped out at 20 mpg and starting a handful of games.

Anyone else obvious I'm missing?

I guess it depends how you define "reliably starting". If you're going to have a strict definition of it and exclude guys like Goldwire and DeLaurier/Bolden, then the only recent guys that came to mind for me immediately are Ryan Kelly, Quinn Cook, and Matt Jones. All three were McDonald's All-Americans anyways, so they don't necessarily fit in the same category as Coleman.

 

[savedukebball]

Amile and Marshall Plumlee also probably fit that bill too, but again, both were McDonald's All-Americans.

 

[physicsfactor]

Casey Sanders, Dockery, and Zoubek were all outside the top 7 in total minutes played as freshmen but ended up starting the majority of games as seniors. Nolan was 7th in minutes as a freshman.

 

[deeyoukayeee]

I may try to some sort of stats work on this later, but Coleman's transfer based on looking for a bigger role sooner got me thinking about how well-worn -- or not well-worn -- the path is at Duke for players to go from outside of the Top 7 or so as a freshman to reliably starting as an upperclassman (at Duke, that is, rather than at Syracuse or Arizona State).

I can't think of many guys that have done it.

Grayson Allen is the most obvious example; even post-Sulaimon, he was basically the 8th man of 8 as a freshman.

Erik Meek, who went from about 125 total minutes as a freshman to starting 30 games as a senior is another. Then there's the recent example of Goldwire, although even he didn't start more than 50% of the team's games as a junior or senior.

There's also a few dudes like Carmen Wallace, Lee Melchionni, and Marty Clark who kind of topped out at 20 mpg and starting a handful of games.

Anyone else obvious I'm missing?

I think there are a bunch. Kelly and Zoubek of the top of my head.

 

[deeyoukayeee]

Nate James. Greg Newton. Then the guys from another era - Brian Davis, John Smith, Alaa, Strickland.

 

[childress22]

Thanks -- I don't know why I was blanking on some of the more recent guys.

I wouldn't count Nolan (he got 14 mpg and played in every game, so that's to me being a key reserve early on, and we have a lot of those guys who've done well), but Kelly, Sanders, MP3 and Zoubek are great examples. Even though "starting as a senior" for Casey was still a bit of a supporting role, at 17.8 mpg.

 

[childress22]

Alaa was just before my time -- I hadn't realized he played so sparingly early on. Davis is another great example.

So that's at least five dudes that ended up being drafted that played sparingly (single-digit mpg) as freshmen: Grayson Allen (1st), Alaa Abdelnaby (1st), Brian Davis (2nd), Ryan Kelly (2nd), Erik Meek (2nd).

 

[rhfarmer]

I remember some chatter about K wishing he had redshirted RK his freshman year. Didn’t he get mono his freshman year?

 

[Pantone287]

Alaa was just before my time -- I hadn't realized he played so sparingly early on. Davis is another great example.

So that's at least five dudes that ended up being drafted that played sparingly (single-digit mpg) as freshmen: Grayson Allen (1st), Alaa Abdelnaby (1st), Brian Davis (2nd), Ryan Kelly (2nd), Erik Meek (2nd).

Miles Plumlee is another first rounder to add to that list. He's arguably the best example of someone sticking it out - started a bunch of games beginning his sophomore year after getting spot minutes as the 10th man as a freshman, drafted in the first round, made a ton of money in the league.

Mason even sort of qualifies for your original criteria, as he was really the 8th man in competitive games in 2010 and only got 11 minutes in the FF. But he did average closer to 15 mpg overall.

Seems like big men are much more likely to make the leaps over time - but then again, we don't recruit many top 50 perimeter players that don't make the rotation as freshmen, and those that don't mostly leave.

 

[childress22]

Seems like big men are much more likely to make the leaps over time - but then again, we don't recruit many top 50 perimeter players that don't make the rotation as freshmen, and those that don't mostly leave.

I agree with all that. I feel like between the guards (who all play) and the bigs (who often need development) there's a sweet-spot archetypal transfer at Duke a 6'7"-6'8" non-top-20 tweener forward who doesn't have real guard skills. That's not to say that Murphy, Coleman, Tucker, Ojeleye, Brakefield, Boykin, Sweet, Czyz are exactly the same player, but still.

 

[rome8180]

Feels like most of our guards play early. The wings that don't play seem to transfer. And the big men can slowly grow into key roles over time. I think that would have happened with Coleman if not for the redshirt rule being waived. The fact that he waited until we landed John tells me he wasn't exactly keen to transfer.

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

I also feel like we're just constantly bringing in a glut of kids in the 6'5 to 6'8 range that can play the 2-4 or whatever and calling it positionless basketball. Problem is they all suck at shooting.

 

[rome8180]

And some of them get completely pushed out of the rotation without much clear hope of breaking in.

Derryck Thornton and Jeremy Roach each played 28 mpg as a freshman guard. Equivalently shitty big wings didn't play at all.

 

[DurhamSon]

Glad he went outside of the league

 

[childress22]

I can only assume that's a program where he can step in and be a top-3 player from day 1. Good luck to him.

 

[rome8180]

I think they lost like 9 players. Good choice. I don't see him as ever more than a role player, but he could be a really high end one.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

 

[rhfarmer]

18 and 11 last night on 12 shots in 35 minutes.

 

[rhfarmer]

This guy still fucks.