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I still don't understand the utility of protesting a nebulous/unspecified concept, instead of a protest based on something in opposition to an actual restriction, law, policy, defined ongoing practice, or event.

Protesting because you don't want someone to build a mall where a forest is? I get that.
Protesting in opposition to specific segregation practices? I get that
Protesting a war.
Protesting a law.
Protesting a political candidate or some controversial speaker.

I get all that; there's something specific you can point to in each case that you are in actual opposition to, and a clear mechanism actually exists and is within someone's power that would fulfill the objective of the protest: cancelling plans for the mall, striking down segregation laws, stopping stop and frisk, ending a war, voting no on a law, etc. These anthem "protests" don't seem to have a defined objective of any sorts. The whole thing reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street nonsense a few years back that also failed because there was no real defined objective (or at least not one from concrete leadership), nor could its leaders actually point to something they were in opposition to besides something as nebulous as "corporate greed". There seems to be a different interpretation of what's being protested by whoever is viewing them. I would love it if the players would be interviewed immediately after and given a chance to try and explain their immediate objectives; I imagine it would be as inconsistent and generalized as the OWS interviews were.

This will be unpopular here but I also disagree with those that say this doesn't show disrespect to the country/flag/military. And isn't that kind of the point? Isn't that supposed to be part of why the protests are meaningful? Seems to me that a protest based on an action that's supposed to be completely harmless and inoffensive to anything or anyone really doesn't have nearly as much punch. Otherwise that's not much different than pressing retweet. You may say that wasn't and isn't the intent, but like statues of Silent Sam at UNC or Robert Lee at Duke, in the end the reason given for proponents of their removal wasn't the intention of their original construction, but what the statues are perceived as today. And clearly, kneeling during the anthem has become widely perceived as disrespect towards the anthem/US/military.
 
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Dson, I went to the OWS protest and wandered around and spoke to people. It was a completely disparate group of people with a zillion different agendas that piggy backed onto the specific protest (about regulating Wall Street) that brought about the occupation of the Park in lower Manhattan. Interestingly enough, there were more cops surrounding the protest than there were actual protesters when I was there. The whole thing felt like the parking lot at a Dead show.
 
Yeah I heard it quickly became a shit-show. I agree with this HuffPo piece that said lack of any real agenda killed it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/the-failure-of-occupy-wal_b_1558787.html


I think the same thing is starting to happening with these protests. Are they about "racism"? Are they about the police? Are they about freedom of speech and the right to protest? Are they about opposition to Trump? Are they about anti white supremacy? Solidarity for athletes? Not to mention what some on the right perceive it as. I've seen all these explanations and more from various outlets just in the last 24 hours. It's becoming a rorschach test for each viewer. The more diluted these things become, the more ineffectual they do as well in accomplishing any specific goals.
 
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Whether or not you think the protest is valid is irrelevant.

It's asinine to suggest that this is disrespectful to the country. It's actually the exact opposite. The MOST respectful thing we can do as Americans is speak up when we think improvements can be made to our imperfect society/government. It's literally foundational to our democracy. Telling people when and how they can peacefully and innocuously bring attention to their cause is what's really disrespectful to the country.

I also can't figure out why people keep bringing up the military. The protest has nothing to do with the military and the flag is for all Americans, not just the military.
 
I'm not taking sides here between you or DSon, but Zack, you obviously do not live in the South. I don't know why the national anthem and the flag have become symbols for troops fighting overseas, but it's viewed that way by who knows how many millions in the SE USA and TX. And to steal a line from you, whether or not we understand why folks think that way about the anthem and flag is irrelevant.
 
physicsfactor said:
I'm not taking sides here between you or DSon, but Zack, you obviously do not live in the South. I don't know why the national anthem and the flag have become symbols for troops fighting overseas, but it's viewed that way by who knows how many millions in the SE USA and TX. And to steal a line from you, whether or not we understand why folks think that way about the anthem and flag is irrelevant.
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Yeah, I thought it was that way everywhere. Do they not do "Please rise for the national anthem as we honor the brave men and women fighting overseas..." intro up north?

Regardless, it's a sidebar to the larger issue I was discussing: the actual effectiveness of the protest . Also I don't think Zack's reply could have been towards me since I never mentioned anything about telling people where they could protest.
 
DurhamSon said:
Regardless, it's a sidebar to the larger issue I was discussing: the actual effectiveness of the protest . Also I don't think Zack's reply could have been towards me since I never mentioned anything about telling people where they could protest.
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That was my own editorial. Obviously. Which you certainly understood.
 
@DurhamSon I think that media, talking heads, etc., that are being interviewed about it are just speaking for themselves and what their view is, rather than engaging with the people who are protesting. I listened to Dan Patrick on the radio this morning, and he invited Charles Barkley on as a guest. Why the fuck would Charles Barkley be an authority on this?

There are 3 things I want to see happen out of this, for which I will make a list.

1. Now that owners are in "solidarity" with the players, then Kap deserves a fucking job. The owner's entire gig is up now. He's clearly a capable QB, and the protest is so widespread that the owners can't use it as leverage to keep Kap from playing again.
2. Media needs to actually interview players as to what they are protesting, instead of interviewing each other. I love Tony Dungy, but having him on GMA doesn't mean a whole lot.
3. NFL players, and other athletes who protest should have a specific agenda for which they are agitating, I agree with @DurhamSon here.
 
If the protests keep happening, I think Kaepernick will get a job soon. I was of the opinion that he was too shitty of a QB for the distraction that he was. Now that pretty much every team has guys doing this, he can be brought in as a backup somewhere. Of course, he has already turned down offers for the vet minimum.
 
I'm pretty much in line with Zack's thinking on this one. Just horrific dialogue from confirmed real people.
  • "Why protest during the anthem instead of on the steps of *cliche oppressive government entity* " ... Because that's worked out so well for the past several hundred years?
  • "Who cares what they think, they are paid to entertain." ... You voted for a game show host, dipshit.
 
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I find this so amusing. I'm racistly hearing Kim in my head saying to his roundtable of English language advisors in a racist accent, "wat he say to me? it make no sense! find somwon to help!"

Kim vs. Trump set the world back a century. If there is a god, He is weeping over His creation.
 
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I am not sure I would be more sad than happy to see an extra 4 years of this. Sad part: This is the President, the world will not achieve any progress in any way during his term, and minorities of all sorts will be even more disadvantaged at the end of it. Happy part: Comedy on a grand scale on a daily basis.
 
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