Game Thread [2019-20] #2 Duke vs Central Arkansas (2K Empire Classic)

[Slap the Floor]

I'll believe all that when we beat someone besides Kansas. They played horribly and only some of that was our doing.

I'm not sure what else you want to see. College basketball is down this year. look at the results around the country and the stats being thrown up. Duke is as well positioned as anyone to make a run to the Final Four. UNC has one player taking 25 shots per game. Everyone is down.

I think a lot of us are looking at Duke and comparing us to a standard that doesn't exist in college basketball this year. When you compare us to the 'best' teams in CBB we're clearly right there, or if we're behind, the gap isn't significant enough for us to doubt our potential at being a Final Four contender.

You don't always have to have a take. All we're asking is that you watch more than 3 games before making sweeping statements about Duke or college basketball as a whole.

I can have whatever takes I want to have. If people were predicting our defense to be shit prior to the season starting, surely I can predict our defense as being very good after watching 3 games.

 

[Pantone287]

I am comparing us to the rest of college basketball. I'm not clinging to my pre-season predictions of this team when it's clear that what I thought about this team pre-season are irrelevant because college basketball this year is not even close to what it's been the last few years.

You don't need to watch more than 3 Duke games to realize the rest of college basketball is down. The level of the playing field as dropped. Duke is in the mix for a Final Four and like every year it will be dependent on multiple things come tournament time, but we clearly have a shot at it unlike 2016 for example.

To be fair, you're making pretty large assumptions based on almost nothing.

 

[Slap the Floor]

To be fair, you're making pretty large assumptions based on almost nothing, unless you've read something unavailable to the general public. We have absolutely no way of knowing that

Look at more than 3 games. You constantly jump from one extreme to the other.

I am comparing us to the rest of college basketball. I'm not clinging to my pre-season predictions of this team when it's clear that what I thought about this team pre-season are irrelevant because college basketball this year is not even close to what it's been the last few years.

You don't need to watch more than 3 Duke games to realize the rest of college basketball is down. The level of the playing field as dropped. Duke is in the mix for a Final Four and like every year it will be dependent on multiple things come tournament time, but we clearly have a shot at it unlike 2016 for example.

To be fair, you're making pretty large assumptions based on almost nothing.

Did you just take my post from a thread about a recruit and bring it into this one?

Wow, big zinger there.

 

[aiw]

Totally (intentionally?) missing the point.

 

[best4heisman]

It wasn't a demand, just a suggestion.

We're all prone to overreacting in the moment (look at literally every game chat). Point is you have to weigh the natural human tendency to be a prisoner of the moment against the rational part of your brain that reminds you that its very early and we're dealing with a very limited set of data.

The best team, the dominant team, could very well be a team no one is thinking about yet. Duke could go 32-4 or 20-12, we have not seen nearly enough to know how this season will go. We played a game against a Kansas team that may or may not be good and then had two games against randos. Just let shit happen.

I know that it's not exactly a revelation to say "its too early to know anything" but it's the truth at this point. And over and over, we have to listen to you talk with absolutely certainty about a belief you've held for 15 minutes. It gets tiring.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Totally (intentionally?) missing the point.

I understood the point he was attempting to make but it doesn't apply here and it's an unclever and cheap shot. Taking statements and removing their context doesn't mean they apply the same from topic to topic.

 

[aiw]

Yeah, so you didn't get it. That's fine.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

@Slap the Floor , people are trying to help you here in a measured and reasonable way. The advice they’re giving you would actually help you in all aspects of life. It’s a lot better than you’ll get from most people you encounter, who will think you’re too hopeless to be worth their time to try to help. Your prisoner of the moment thing is really detrimental to having any success in life.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Yeah, so you didn't get it. That's fine.

Nope, I did get it. Just because I don't agree with his point doesn't mean I don't get it.

 

[aiw]

OK

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

That said, I agree wholeheartedly that this Duke team is perhaps the best college basketball team of all time, relative to the current field.

 

[Slap the Floor]

That said, I agree wholeheartedly that this Duke team is perhaps the best college basketball team of all time, relative to the current field.

Yes, it is certainly possible.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

I’ll say this - it’s certainly early and we’ve played some ass teams, but some of the fundamental things we’re doing, particularly defensively, are things teams in our very recent past never picked up on, much less so early in the season.

Our rotations tonight look really advanced for as early as we are in the season. I found myself multiple times being surprised by guys being in the right position, jumping to ice a screen on time, etc. Around the 13 or 14 minute mark of the second half CA drove baseline in front of the Duke bench. We did a nice job I thought of cutting the drive off on the baseline, forcing a pass to the weak side corner, which we closed out on, and they moved it to an open shooter on the wing. Carey knew exactly where he was supposed to be and flew out to challenge the shot, despite having had other responsibilities on the other side of the court moments earlier. It was impressive. Those types of things have given me more hope than I probably should have and are encouraging at such an early juncture.

 

[torontoduke]

Nice to see competent FT shooting

 

[rome8180]

I’ll say this - it’s certainly early and we’ve played some ass teams, but some of the fundamental things we’re doing, particularly defensively, are things teams in our very recent past never picked up on, much less so early in the season.

Our rotations tonight look really advanced for as early as we are in the season. I found myself multiple times being surprised by guys being in the right position, jumping to ice a screen on time, etc. Around the 13 or 14 minute mark of the second half CA drove baseline in front of the Duke bench. We did a nice job I thought of cutting the drive off on the baseline, forcing a pass to the weak side corner, which we closed out on, and they moved it to an open shooter on the wing. Carey knew exactly where he was supposed to be and flew out to challenge the shot, despite having had other responsibilities on the other side of the court moments earlier. It was impressive. Those types of things have given me more hope than I probably should have and are encouraging at such an early juncture.

Agree with all this. And I want to know why we're so much better on defense out of the gate. Looking at the personnel, it really doesn't look any more apt to be a great defense. It makes me wonder if K realized he had to coach defense extra hard this year due to the lack of offensive firepower. If that's true, it leaves me frustrated about the coaching job he did with some of our other bad defensive teams.

 

[rome8180]

Is this the most bench points under K? I'm not watching live, but I hear we're up to 52 bench points. I can't think of another Duke team that would have done that. I checked the Wake game in 2015 where Grayson scored 27 off the bench. The other bench guys only chipped in 8.

I guess it's possible there's some blowout or big Dawkins game I'm overlooking. Otherwise, I imagine you might have to go back to 1998 to find something even close.

Update on this. The 2015 team had 46 points off the bench in our 69-pt blowout of Presbyterian. Three of those bench points came on Marshall Plumlee's infamous three pointer.

Still not as many bench points as tonight.That was the best I could find.

 

[childress22]

Here you go -- in 2007-08 (another young, balanced, scrappy, turnover-forcing team like this one, but with less size), we beat Michigan 95-67 and scored 57 bench points. The notes from GoDuke say that was fourth-most all-time at Duke at the time.

Here's the box score, which has Nolan, Scheyer, and Taylor King getting double-figures off the bench, but the box score makes it seem like there were only 54 bench points.

 

[rome8180]

Damn, I checked 2007-08 but didn't check that game. However, if 54 bench points is the correct number than tonight exceeded that (we finished with 55 bench points).

 

[rome8180]

I'll believe all that when we beat someone besides Kansas. They played horribly and only some of that was our doing.

I'm not sure what else you want to see. College basketball is down this year. look at the results around the country and the stats being thrown up. Duke is as well positioned as anyone to make a run to the Final Four. UNC has one player taking 25 shots per game. Everyone is down.

I think a lot of us are looking at Duke and comparing us to a standard that doesn't exist in college basketball this year. When you compare us to the 'best' teams in CBB we're clearly right there, or if we're behind, the gap isn't significant enough for us to doubt our potential at being a Final Four contender.

You don't always have to have a take. All we're asking is that you watch more than 3 games before making sweeping statements about Duke or college basketball as a whole.

I can have whatever takes I want to have. If people were predicting our defense to be shit prior to the season starting, surely I can predict our defense as being very good after watching 3 games.

I haven't seen anyone argue against our defense being very good right now. The argument is whether that translates into our being one of the four favorites, and whether you can definitively call a whole 350 team sport "down" after three games.

 

[rome8180]

But tbh, even saying CBB is down on such limited evidence is fine. It's more the "we're without question a top 4 team" take that struck me as absurd.