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Game Thread [2022-23] at Virginia Tech

What's your prediction?

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
Another question I have is, if not Jon, then who? I don’t want anyone else from the Duke tree (Capel, Amaker, Collins, etc), and I’m not even convinced we could lure a Musselman or an Oats here now that intra-P5 coaching moves are rare with every proven HC making generational wealth these days. We’d probably just be rolling the dice with another unproven assistant, so I don’t want to move on until it’s clear Scheyer isn’t the man.
 
bdotling said:
I give Scheyer a pass on in game adjustments and play calls as I think that takes more experience. I don’t give him a pass on terrible roster construction and lineups. The fact he doesn’t even bother trying with Mitchell at the 4 and Flip at the 5 is very worrisome.
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No offense, but I don't know what numbers of ours this year would lead you to say "You know what? We need to sit Ryan Young and Lively more to give even more time to our perimeter players."

For sure Mitchell is not a 3. But Blakes, Roach, Proctor, and Whitehead are our bottom 4 guys in contributing to winning basketball right now.
 
Interesting. Guess we’ll see. Mgbako has been terrible so far this high school season, Foster has taken a secondary role to Dusty Stormer for his team and Eric Bossi has even noted his struggles, Sean Stewart comes off the bench for Montverde. McCain has been up and down, though admittedly more up than down. No clue on Power. These kids better be hits for Scheyer. Back to back years of ‘yeah, but they were all highly rated kids that everybody wanted’ only for them to be trash at Duke and folks aren’t going to keep vibing to this tune of ‘I can’t blame him for these kids being busts.’ Should also add that the Darren Harris kid, committed in 2024, has been fucking butt cheeks so far this season for Paul VI.
 
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Devilsforlife said:
Another question I have is, if not Jon, then who? I don’t want anyone else from the Duke tree (Capel, Amaker, Collins, etc), and I’m not even convinced we could lure a Musselman or an Oats here now that intra-P5 coaching moves are rare with every proven HC making generational wealth these days. We’d probably just be rolling the dice with another unproven assistant, so I don’t want to move on until it’s clear Scheyer isn’t the man.
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Yeah we’re not getting those guys and Snyder isn’t coming here either. So the next hire anyways would be some uninspired, safe choice, probably made with political considerations. This conversation isn’t worth having for at least another two years minimum regardless
 
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I’ll say this: Scheyer hasn’t given me much reason to be optimistic about his future. Thinking about other names is silly because we know he isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. But I was hoping to watch this season and feel good about the future with him in charge. His roster decisions and lineups, however, don’t give me the warm and fuzzies when I think long term.

Whether a fluke or not, it’s gross to think Hubert took them to the title game in year one and Scheyer is currently floundering with virtually no shot of winning a single game in the tourney (and that assumes we make it). He’s gonna get crushed on the recruiting trail (high school and portal) after this season.
 
I personally have found the defense and rebounding to be sources of optimism on net. I thought our defense on Saturday was the best it’s been against a good Miami team in the Larranaga era.

The class of 2022 seems to be historically weak. Flip honest to god may be the best freshman in CBB this year. I can’t think of anyone else who’s been terribly impressive. Grady Dick for KU? We’d have probably been better off just loading up on portal vets.
 
I still think Scheyer's done an awesome job of recruiting and he and his staff have done a really underrated job of building the defense. We actually kind of play defense like the Duke teams I grew up watching. It's not a small thing to me. He's signed the kind of classes that should lead to winning down the road, though a couple of poor early-entry-to-nowhere decisions a la Steward/Hurt/Keels could always undercut that.

Offense still needs....a LOT of work. Sure some of it is on Jeremy and Tyrese and Dariq and Grandison for poor shooting, but we basically have run nothing to get our guards open unless they 1) drive completely on their own (which really should be used sparingly given Roach's lack of height and Proctor's lack of speed) or 2) get a kick-out from Flip/Young. Or maybe someone on the other team overcommits and we score off a swing pass. But that's it.
 
Right, 2022, 2023, and 2024 are all historically weak per the dudes that follow it (Finklestein is great IMO). So the focus should be the portal. It wasn’t last summer, as we know, and now we’ve got five dudes from a bad 2023 class coming in (per the experts). Doesn’t mean we still can’t add difference makers from the portal, but I think it’s safe to assume that’s not likely.

Dick’s been ok. Keyonte George has been better than any of our guys and noted many years ago Duke was his dream school. Amati Bailey at UCLA struggled early but was really playing well prior to his injury. But he was always gonna end up at UCLA. Brandon Miller at Alabama is incredible. Anthony Black at Arkansas has had moments. Cam Whitmore at Villanova would be the best player on our roster. There’s another big kid at Alabama having a hell of a year as well. Nate Oats is running circles around people right now.
 
childress22 said:
bdotling said:
I give Scheyer a pass on in game adjustments and play calls as I think that takes more experience. I don’t give him a pass on terrible roster construction and lineups. The fact he doesn’t even bother trying with Mitchell at the 4 and Flip at the 5 is very worrisome.
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No offense, but I don't know what numbers of ours this year would lead you to say "You know what? We need to sit Ryan Young and Lively more to give even more time to our perimeter players."

For sure Mitchell is not a 3. But Blakes, Roach, Proctor, and Whitehead are our bottom 4 guys in contributing to winning basketball right now.
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You are assuming that our guards can’t play better in a lineup with more spacing. Our offense is clearly trash, and Young happens to be one of the better performers in that pile of trash so we have to keep it as is?

I understand your take but I also think it’s quite naive and presumptuous to assume everybody would perform the same in a lineup that is designed to create more spacing than what we have now.
 
childress22 said:
I still think Scheyer's done an awesome job of recruiting and he and his staff have done a really underrated job of building the defense. We actually kind of play defense like the Duke teams I grew up watching. It's not a small thing to me. He's signed the kind of classes that should lead to winning down the road, though a couple of poor early-entry-to-nowhere decisions a la Steward/Hurt/Keels could always undercut that.

Offense still needs....a LOT of work. Sure some of it is on Jeremy and Tyrese and Dariq and Grandison for poor shooting, but we basically have run nothing to get our guards open unless they 1) drive completely on their own (which really should be used sparingly given Roach's lack of height and Proctor's lack of speed) or 2) get a kick-out from Flip/Young. Or maybe someone on the other team overcommits and we score off a swing pass. But that's it.
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They can’t drive. There is no spacing. See post above
 
I certainly agree our defense has been a pleasant surprise. There’s been a clear emphasis by Scheyer and staff on making some changes and it shows (tonight notwithstanding). That is encouraging.

Every time I check their social media prior to a game to see the starting lineup and see Mitchell, Flip, Young/Lively across the frontline I wanna throw my phone out the window.
 
What would be your front court minute distribution? Is Lively getting DNP’d? Because no coach in America is playing Flip at the 5 for 25 to 30 minutes a game while relegating the #1 recruit and our second best player in Young to split the remaining ten or whatever, especially when it’s just to put more sub 40% shooters out there. If we had a Kennerd or Cook or Nolan or two then maybe.

I think SMTTEM said it best that what you’re gaining in spacing you’re losing in adding another Westbrook out there anyways. And our defensive strength of rebounding would also take a hit mitigating any possible boost in scoring

If you blame Scheyer for the roster construction I understand, but when your front court is so lopsidedly better than your backcourt it seems very difficult to avoid this spacing pitfall. I don’t think we can extrapolate from this rare circumstance what Scheyer’s ideal on-court lineup would look like
 
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I mean, the dude who was the best solution to moving away from three-big lineups just went down for the count.
 
If you want to force it so bad then still have Flip at the 4 for 5-10 min a game to placate players but the majority should be at the 5. Also maybe we shouldn’t try to placate players as much anymore, the OAD importance is most likely diminishing with NIL and transfers.

anyway I find it a bit baffling folks are only shitting on players when you all recognize that this isn’t a modern offense and willing to keep it as is when the offense is already trash?
 
Sorry just saw your edit. I have to think some of our shooting woes are also scheme related. Grandison is an example of that, he’s been worse with us in my opinion because of how he’s being utilized.
 
Personally, I think it's difficult to know how good these players would actually look in a system with spacing. We can point to the guards being awful, but how much of that is the clogged lane? For example, against Miami, Dariq jacked up 4 awful midrange shots in a row because he couldn't get to the rim. Flip can still bully his way there, but he's got 30 pounds and 5-10 inches on these other guys.

And of course when the lane is clogged, that also makes the spacing for shooters worse, since they play off each other.
 
I think we would all be more sad to see this roster try to run pace and space, with lots of penetration and kick outs to open shooters. I am trying to envision this and I am getting depressed. It would be like Jaylen Blakes driving on the opponent’s worst defender in a “mismatch” and kicking to a wide open Roach or Proctor or Mitchell for 3.

I have to assume Scheyer has considered it, tried it in practice, died inside, and decided to never allow the public to witness it. I’d like for him to try it in a game just to be sure it’s bad, though. There’s really no harm in trying it at least for a few possessions against UVA, for example. They’re not going to win that game with 8-9 guys in the paint on offense. Impossible.

I hate this roster. I hate that there is no way to make smart basketball work with it.
 
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