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Duke Recruiting General Discussion

physicsfactor said:
I guess I'm the only regular here who would love to have Zion at Duke. His handle and athleticism at his size are insane. Like ddb said, if he was motivated to play defense, he would be a great PF for Duke even if he couldn't shoot.

But if I were him, I would go to Kentucky since they would utilize him in better by playing fast and letting him get out on breaks.
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I don't really even understand the argument against wanting him as a PF (and probably C at times). He pretty clearly looks like the most dominant player in the class to me.

For all of the loving on Barrett's skill and high floor as a SF, Zion shot better %s from 3PT and FT during his school season than Barrett did in the combo AAU/USA stats wtb posted in the other thread. Seems like the concerns about his perceived weaknesses are more knee-jerk assumptions based on his physical dominance than they are evidence-based at this point.
 
On a more serious note, I'd appreciate if certain cynical/negative posters would refer to "Coach K" by his full title of "Master Michael William Krzyzewski, the First of His Name, Untarnished GOAT and Lord of the Peach Basket, Protector of Class and Honour in Sport, Khalesar of Kameron, Gentlemen Regnant of the First Weekend, Breaker of Spirits and Mother of NADs".
 
deepdarkblue said:
I would be okay with Williamson at Duke if he chooses to use his ridiculous physical abilities on the defensive end.
But Duke freshman OADs who are dedicated defenders are only slightly more common than unicorns, so we should probably pass.
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I think Carter Jr. will be that unicorn for Duke this year. Outside chance that Trent Jr can meet that standard on D as well.
 
I've said it all before many times and get pounded for it. I'll root for whoever chooses to play for Duke and wears the uniform but if given the choice I'd rather recruit and get players that are more likely to stay multiple years. Allen, Jefferson and even Kennard types (just to name a few) it's just far more satisfying watching kids grow together as young men, friends and basketball players than it is to see kids come in and play mostly for themselves. Using the Duke stage as a tryout dress rehearsal for the NBA.

When these OAD players prove to give Duke a better chance to win and get Duke further in the tourney than old school multi year kids then inmay change my tune. But as of the last 7 years (since Kyrie) we don't win any more often than we did the previous 7. Actually I think we have more tourney wins between 2004-2010 than we do 2011-2017.
If the OADs have more wins it's only by a couple and not enough to sway heavily my opinion.
But like I said I will root just as hard this year as I did in 2005. It's just a lot more satisfying in the end when the stable or majority of players actually graduate (2010) than it is watching OADs run the majority of the show (2015) even though most of those kids (Cook, Marshall, Jones, Allen and Amile) actually will graduate. The current trend in Duke recruiting is trending the opposite of both of those squads.
 
I think most folks would prefer a better balance instead of going full-on Calipari OAD mode which is a very high risk / high reward recruiting strategy that doesn't seem to be sustainable with whatever Duke's defensive coaching model is.
 
A balanced recruiting approach has made the most sense to me. Aside from actually landing the top targets, the key is retaining those longer-term players in the program. This has been a problem.
 
I'm fine with a couple of OADs combined with some top 60 multiyear players who actually get to play. I'm not okay with 3-4 OADs who get all of the playing time while freshman, sophomore, and possibly junior multiyear guys die from neglect on the bench.
 
This will never happen again due to the nature of our recruiting (Golden Era), but give me the 2006 class over the 2016 class any day.
 
I wonder what kompromat K has on the admissions officers. It seems like admissions is a non issue these days..
 
Wasn't Giles something of a special case? I remember there being some outrage over his rehab and online classes after leaving Oak Hill.
 
The model for the one and done scenario should be 2011, IMO. Have a junior-senior laden roster that is a top 10 team on it's own, but recruit and sign 1-2 very elite one and done players to push them further ahead- like that team did with Irving.

I've always felt that the one and done players should not be creating their own locker room and culture at Duke. They should be entering a culture which has been well established by the experienced players (that actually fucking play and can score) and coaching staff. I think recently, last season in particular, that the "one and done culture" kind of swamped the team. Tatum and Giles were for sure leaving- Kennard and Allen were possibilities, Jackson and Bolden came into the season wanting to go pro.

We need to do a better job of blending one and done's into the program, and we probably shouldn't be signing 3-4 a season as that will make it extremely difficult to "blend them in". Right now, we are borderline Kentucky. I will say that I don't think we are entirely there yet as we have still relied recently to a great extent on players like Amile Jefferson, Kennard (two years), Allen, Quinn Cook. But, it really feels like we are about to become Kentucky, and I don't want to become that. The best strategy to the one and done game is to have established veteran players, and then compliment them with 1-2 elite one and done players.

When I say elite one and done players, I mean players that will be extremely productive and considered among the best freshman in America. I don't consider Frank Jackson or Marques Bolden (Bolden isn't one and done but he sure wanted and expected to be) an elite one and done. I consider Tatum to be. The Giles thing was just unfortunate but he fit the mold of elite.

To summarize, I want to get away from having to recruit waves of "one and done" freshman to bring in a new wave of talent and to plug roster deficiencies. If the coaches correctly evaluate 3-4 year players we wouldn't have to bring in a new roster every season, and instead could focus on the really elite couple of guys that will enhance the roster and take it to the next level. We are basically just recruiting talent at this point, instead of trying to balance recruiting talent and how that talent fits. Last season's roster was frankly a bit of a mess, and I refuse to believe there was ever any real plan for this current recruiting cycle on what the "plan" was for this upcoming season's roster, style of play, etc. We just recruited talented and are now adjusting on the fly. It's a risky game and that shit catches up to you overtime.
 
But the problem is once you start down "waves of OAD" path, you can't go back without having some painful seasons (by Duke's standards) because you're needing to replace nearly all of the productivity from last season's lineup with lesser ranked guys who might be sophomores and juniors but have yet to play real minutes or with lesser ranked freshmen who won't leave after a year. And I think Coach K is too close to the end of his career to want to deal with a couple of almost surefire mediocre seasons. The current approach may result in mediocre seasons, but at least there's the chance the freshmen overwhelm and destroy everyone.
 
That's exactly right. K has no incentive to take any lumps and we are stuck in a vicious cycle.
 
I don't think that's necessarily true. In Duke's case, it's OAD's coupled with guys who bolt because K won't let them play. Duke could be entering this year with seasoned vet's at PG (Thornton), G (Allen), F (JMD, Jeter, White), C (Bolden, Vrank). And frankly, if those guys had played more, maybe Jackson or Kennard could have been "hidden" a bit more, purposely or not.

I think the short bench has at least as much to do with it as the OAD carousel.

Losing guys like Silent G and Semi have hurt us just as much, IMO.
 
Oh, I agree with that. I think it fits in with K not wanting to suffer sub-elite play in the current season. If each season could potentially be your last, why take the time to develop kids who might be valuable two years from now when you know you can win riding the studs you already have.

Also, IMO part of it is just Coach K's "trust" thing. Some guys who don't even seem to be that good earn his trust very early on. Some guys never earn it. Maybe it's as simple as communicating and rotating correctly on defense. Maybe it's a practice thing that we'll never see. I don't know, but that's my perception as an outsider anyway.
 
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