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NBA Draft Discussion

It may have been premature before, but now we can craft the true, definitive, March rotation for next season:

PG Trevon Duval (28) / Frank Jackson (12)
SG Frank Jackson (16) / Grayson Allen (24)
SF Luke Kennard (32) / Grayson Allen (8)
PF Kevin Knox (28) / Wendell Carter (12)
C Wendell Carter (16) / Marques Bolden (12) / Antonio Vrankovic (12)

NASTY. Largely the same rotation as the legendary 2017 team, but replace Amile and Matt with stud freshmen who are locks to be great and healthy all season? Crown them now.
 
StopThePumpFakesShav said:
You will get used to SMTTEM's posting style soon enough if you stick around. Assume sarcasm.

Noted thanks, learning the ways slowly but surely. Little hazing is needed.
 
I do think that what I put up there is the best possible rotation we can get next season. It's a big issue when only 34% of the minutes I projected are known with any certainty to be on the team next season (Jackson, Carter, Vrankovic). 66% of my ideal minutes are up in the air.
 
Trent plays regardless of which guards come back. We're Duke. We like guards. He's getting at least 18 minutes or so, obviously a lot more based on what Duval/Allen/Kennard do.
 
That's a nice thought, Childress, but that's simply not reality, and that's a major problem with K these days.

Here are the minutes distributions from the final Duke NCAAT game of each of the last few seasons:

2017 South Carolina - 6 players 20+ minutes, 1 player 9 minutes
2016 Oregon - 6 players 20+ minutes, 1 player 11 minutes
2015 Wisconsin - 7 players 20+ minutes, 1 player 9 minutes
2014 Mercer - 6 players 20+ minutes, 1 player 7 minutes, 3 players 4 minutes or less
2013 Louisville - 5 players 20+ minutes, 2 players 11-19 minutes, 3 players garbage time
2012 Lehigh - 6 players 20+ minutes, 1 player 11 minutes, 1 player 10 minutes

Note that the 7th guy in 2015 with 20+ minutes was Grayson Allen with 21, which was way out of left field for K. He had not been playing Allen more than 10 minutes in any close game until that title game.

So unless you think K is having an epiphany this offseason, or you think Trent is going to be one of Duke's top 6 most necessary players with Duval, Jackson, Allen, Kennard, Knox, Carter and Bolden/Vrankovic on the hypothetical base-case team, it's very unlikely that K will play Trent at all in competitive games.

Sure, it's possible that Trent is great and breaks into K's trusted core of players, but then you need to swap someone out for him, since K isn't going to play more than the minimum necessary to get through a game without total exhaustion. Does Trent overtake Jackson, Allen or Kennard? Does K decide he doesn't need a PG again next season, and keep top 10 recruit Duval nailed to the bench?

In fact, projecting anyone for around 18 minutes in a competitive game under K's coaching is actually the least likely prediction possible. You're either in K's top 6, or you're lucky enough to be one of the 1-2 scrubs he gives token minutes to, or you're worthless in a game.
 
I feel like any 'best possible rotation' would have to include a 'Delaurier who has learned defense'. A Knox/Delaurier rotation next to 30-33 mpg of Carter seems optimal to me. I just have no faith whatsoever Bolden is playable as more than a backup 5, and if K won't go Giles/Jefferson - two relatively mobile bigs - he ain't going Bolden/Carter (or Vrank/Carter).

I think Javin gets 10-13 mpg next year.
 
SeanMayTriedToEatMe said:


Tatum 4, Kennard 19, Giles 24, Allen 39.



So Kennard has dropped 5 spots in 2 days, Giles stayed the same, and Grayson dropped 1.
 
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6ights said:
SeanMayTriedToEatMe said:


Tatum 4, Kennard 19, Giles 24, Allen 39.



So Kennard has dropped 5 spots in 2 days, Giles stayed the same, and Grayson dropped 1.


K doin' work behind the scenes!
 
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Looking at DraftExpress now, this is one of the more intriguing drafts ever. Simmons has been saying this and even I think Simmons is too hyperbolic about this stuff, but now that I'm done following the college season, I see what he's talking about. There are a ton of forks in the road for franchises in this draft.

At the very top, Fultz and Ball are totally different prospects that fill the same spot for a franchise. Ball has more bust potential (LOL), but probably a higher ceiling for value to a team, because he's so unique in a world where there are a decent amount of worse versions of Russell Westbrook already. Fultz is such a safe choice, I don't believe anyone would take Ball over him.

At 3 and 4, you have the Josh Jackson or Tatum decision. I can't make a neutral assessment here, since I've seen Jackson play maybe 3 times in my life, but looking at the numbers only, I don't know why Jackson is above Tatum. Given that Tatum is 12 months younger and has a 2" wingspan advantage, to put Jackson above Tatum, Jackson must have been almost strictly better than Tatum this season. That's not the case. You have extreme bust potential with Jackson, seeing as he was a terrible 57% FT shooter to go along with his impressive 37% 3pt shooting. There are so many examples of guys with good 3pt shooting in college but with range that simply doesn't translate to the NBA - Justise Winslow is the obvious Duke example. I'd guess that for a lot of these types, poor FT shooting in college should've been a red flag. Tatum obviously doesn't have that same issue. If anything, his 85% FT shooting should signal that he can improve his range pretty easily with a good coaching staff around him.

At 5, 6 and 7, you have the run on guards. Monk, Fox, Smith. Such extreme strengths and weaknesses for Fox, such a boom or bust pick. Smith's biggest red flag is the same as Fultz's - how awful his team was. I don't think anyone in the NBA cares about that, and they probably shouldn't. I agree with Monk going first of the three. Easy potential as an elite 3-and-D SG, with bonus extreme potential if you can turn him into a PG. At 10, another PG in Ntilikina, about whom I can't even begin to pretend to know anything.

I think the guys with a really good chance of being above average starters end at 7. At 8, 9, 11 and 12 are the versatile forwards. Markkanen, the guy people want to be Dirk. Isaac, who kind of reminds me of Noah Vonleh due to the projected draft position and perceived strengths/weaknesses. That's not a flattering comparison for Isaac. Bridges, the freak athlete who is surprisingly not a bad shooter. Justin Jackson, the champion. I think that order is right. I wouldn't pick Jackson until much later, though. 12 seems absolutely crazy, given his age. The next 6 projected picks after Jackson are all 18-19 years old. Jackson is 23.

All of the organizations from pick 15-21 are competent and have a good amount of hope for the future. That's the sweet spot for Giles and Kennard to land. They're not projected to land there. From 22-30 (end of 1st round), my breakdown would be 6 competent/hopeful organizations, 3 incompetent/hopeless for several seasons at least (Nets, Magic, Nets). The holy grail, of course, is the Spurs at 29 (neither the Cavs nor the Warriors have a 1st round pick), assuming they don't trade the pick for cap space, which is probably what will happen. Giles would quickly become a 3 and D guy on the Spurs with elite defense and 40-45% 3pt shooting, then receive a $100 million guaranteed contract. Kennard would be properly hidden on defense and good for 3-4 huge 3s per game in the playoffs off the bench.

We know how this actually goes. They're going to the Nets and Magic. Both out of the league in 3 years, shortly after their careers at Duke would have ended had they stayed in school.

The most striking thing about the mock draft is how little franchises value big men anymore. There are plenty of stats by the smart NBA folks that show big men are basically being phased out of rotations across the league. Is Bam Adebayo really much worse as a prospect than Anthony Bennett coming out of college? Bennett was the overall 1. Four years later, Adebayo is projected 30.
 
Great analysis, SM.

As a Celts fan, I am more excited about this draft than the Celts playoff chances.

JT vs. JJ is indeed an interesting debate. JJ is a better finisher and has a quicker 1st step (from what I observed), JT is a better rebounder and shooter.
 
Kennard has moved up to #18 on DraftExpress, to the Pacers. Can't blame him at all for leaving if he knew someone was going to draft him up there.

The Bucks have the 17th pick. Ignoring whether or not he would enjoy living in Milwaukee (he's a white guy from Ohio, so maybe it wouldn't bother him like it would most other players), I think that's the dream scenario for Kennard. The Bucks are positioned to be next in line in the East after LeBron fades - Giannis should be the best or 2nd best player in the East for the next 10 years. They have a desperate need for Kennard's one great skill and have the defenders in theory to hide his defense. I don't know how the Bucks were only 17th in defensive efficiency this season with Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon, Henson - probably due to youth and Jabari for half the season.
 
Harry Giles at the combine:

6'10 1/2"
232 lbs.
7'3" wingspan
5% body fat
9 1/2" hand length
11" hand width
32.5" vertical

Biggest hands in draft.
 
deepdarkblue said:
I feel bad for Harry. That vertical, not good.

Vertical stats are weird though. Sure, that's even a bit lower than Tyler Hansbrough and Patty Mills. But it's higher than Kawhi Leonard, Trevor Ariza, Josh McRoberts, Hassan Whiteside, Luol Deng, Clint Capela, Chandler Parsons, and DeAndre Jordan.
 

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