Politics

[ZackM]

Crazy that, given the public's current distrust of the media, ABC would run with that headline without doing more to confirm it.

 

[sivartrenrag]

That is quite the correction.

 

[Devilsforlife]

A friend sent me this, and correct me if I'm wrong, it looks as though pretty much all income brackets would save money under this bill. Yes, the rich will benefit too, but how is the middle class getting shafted here?

 

[ZackM]

Long term. As the debt climbs ever higher, cuts will have to be made to foot the bill. Those cuts will come from education, research, medicare, medicaid, welfare, infrastructure, etc. All things the benefit the middle and lower class.

Or, in 8 years when this tax bill has run its course, taxes will have to be raised to recoup everything we lost. Just in time to blame whatever Dem is probably in office.

 

[DurhamSon]

Corporate tax rates have needed to come down for years. It never made sense that we had the highest rate among industrial nations in the whole world, third highest among all nations. No, that money won't all go back into the pockets of the working class, but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create investment and expansion in the private job sector, either.

From a conservative perspective ideally there'd be spending cuts in defense and entitlement before this bill was ever conceived, but that's not politically feasible in today's climate, sadly. Instead the cart is going to have to drag the horse for a little bit...

 

[ZackM]

but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create expansion in the private job sector

Is it? What incentive do they have to turn that money into new jobs?

 

[sjsj2448]

Crazy that, given the public's current distrust of the media, ABC would run with that headline without doing more to confirm it.

Yep. My GOP friends are having a field day with it. Absolutely absurd what ABC pulled there. Ross should be fired.

 

[Devilsforlife]

My disgust with the media continues to grow. I've railed against it for years, but it seems that incorrect and misleading stories have rapidly exploded recently. Not to mention devoting so much time to clowns who croak the loudest like LaVar Ball. All the major networks are guilty of it, so there's blame to go around everywhere.

 

[DurhamSon]

but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create expansion in the private job sector

Is it? What incentive do they have to turn that money into new jobs?

Because they'll have the resources to grow their business through labor and capital investment? I don't think many mainstream economists dispute this. It's also a cut that almost pays for itself

https://taxfoundation.org/long-run-growth-budget-effects-reducing-corporate-tax-rate-20-percent/

What i'd be curious to hear from opponents of the cuts is why it makes sense for the US to have the highest corporate tax rate in the entire industrialized world, ahead of many more left-governing nations. I've heard people claim that it gets washed out by a deficit spurred increase in interest rates, but from a conservative perspective you'd pair this with cuts in spending to prevent that deficit increase in the first place.

 

[deepdarkblue]

Corporate tax rates have needed to come down for years. It never made sense that we had the highest rate among industrial nations in the whole world, third highest among all nations. No, that money won't all go back into the pockets of the working class, but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create investment and expansion in the private job sector, either.

From a conservative perspective ideally there'd be spending cuts in defense and entitlement before this bill was ever conceived, but that's not politically feasible in today's climate, sadly. Instead the cart is going to have to drag the horse for a little bit...

The corporate tax rate is misleading. It's essentially saying "Here is your tax rate if you're too stupid to know how to use deductions, depreciations, and write-offs". There certainly isn't a publicly traded corporation that pays even half of the corporate rate.
This is great news for corporate executives, though. Their disgustingly big, fat bonuses just got bigger.

 

[aiw]

Long term. As the debt climbs ever higher, cuts will have to be made to foot the bill. Those cuts will come from education, research, medicare, medicaid, welfare, infrastructure, etc. All things the benefit the middle and lower class.

Or, in 8 years when this tax bill has run its course, taxes will have to be raised to recoup everything we lost. Just in time to blame whatever Dem is probably in office.

Corporate tax cuts permanent. Individual tax cuts temporary, but the GOP promises they'll be extended.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

That spreadsheet is neglecting the huge factor of getting rid of personal exemptions, which are $4k deductions per person, so $8k for a couple. About half of those middle class people will come out behind, depending on their circumstances (e.g., kids, home ownership). I'm confident some of you will be paying higher taxes due to this tax cut.

The immediate tax hits will be for the upper middle class/lower upper class in high tax locations like NY and CA. State and local deduction is a big deal, like $40k deduction for your typical highly educated couple in those areas making $400k. Instead of $40k plus $8k personal exemption, for $48k total itemized deduction, that couple will now take the standard deduction of $24k, which means a loss of about $10-12k post-tax income due to their marginal tax rate of close to 50%. This is balanced out partially or perhaps even fully by the lower tax rates in general, but many couples in this situation, who are almost entirely Democratic voters, will be paying more.

The millionaires are the only ones who will certainly benefit from the individual changes.

 

[DurhamSon]

Corporate tax rates have needed to come down for years. It never made sense that we had the highest rate among industrial nations in the whole world, third highest among all nations. No, that money won't all go back into the pockets of the working class, but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create investment and expansion in the private job sector, either.

From a conservative perspective ideally there'd be spending cuts in defense and entitlement before this bill was ever conceived, but that's not politically feasible in today's climate, sadly. Instead the cart is going to have to drag the horse for a little bit...

The corporate tax rate is misleading. It's essentially saying "Here is your tax rate if you're too stupid to know how to use deductions, depreciations, and write-offs". There certainly isn't a publicly traded corporation that pays even half of the corporate rate.
This is great news for corporate executives, though. Their disgustingly big, fat bonuses just got bigger.

It's true the effective rate is lower but if you believe that then what's the argument against lowering the listed rate to be more in line with the effective rate?

 

[aiw]

You don't think they'll find more loopholes and lower the effective rate even more? Of course they will.

 

[aiw]

Why doesn't he just keep his mouth shut? He now says he knows Flynn lied, went to Comey to lay off Flynn. Comey refuses and he fires Comey.

 

[ZackM]

but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create expansion in the private job sector

Is it? What incentive do they have to turn that money into new jobs?

Because they'll have the resources to grow their business through labor and capital investment?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply 0 growth, just that most big businesses will have plenty of other options for how to use that money. Many of which provide better immediate returns without having to create a single job. It's not like they're currently hurting for profits.

 

[deepdarkblue]

The GOP and Trump pushed the tax cut with the assurance that they were closing loopholes. Reading over what I can find of the tax bill, all I can find are more loopholes that were created. Big surprise there.

 

[aiw]

Anyway, does this take effect for this tax year? I made decisions based on current tax law. Has to wait til '18 taxes, right?

 

[Topher]

My disgust with the media continues to grow. I've railed against it for years, but it seems that incorrect and misleading stories have rapidly exploded recently. Not to mention devoting so much time to clowns who croak the loudest like LaVar Ball. All the major networks are guilty of it, so there's blame to go around everywhere.

It'll change as soon as money doesn't matter so any day now I'm sure

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

Corporate tax rates have needed to come down for years. It never made sense that we had the highest rate among industrial nations in the whole world, third highest among all nations. No, that money won't all go back into the pockets of the working class, but it also is disingenuous to pretend it won't create investment and expansion in the private job sector, either.

From a conservative perspective ideally there'd be spending cuts in defense and entitlement before this bill was ever conceived, but that's not politically feasible in today's climate, sadly. Instead the cart is going to have to drag the horse for a little bit...

Well said. Agree wholeheartedly with all of this.