Politics

[NCCUknow]

On election day, If it's crystal clear that Trump will lose, I'll probably just vote for Gary Johnson. If it's looking close, I'll vote for Hillary as anti-Trump insurance.

This is where I'm at right now. What makes this even more incredibly frustrating is that these are my first ever presidential elections that I will actually get to vote in - what amazing choices.

After your fourth or fifth Presidential election, you just sort of sigh and accept it. You know it's not right and you know there must be much better people for the job, but they aren't options. You start to wonder if maybe a random lottery might not be equally effective.

I honestly believe that the American presidential election process is designed to make candidates we find admirable and acceptable look like disappointing options. It's just a process of character attrition. I'm certainly susceptible to this. Hillary Clinton really grates me and I often find myself thinking, "man, she seems like a fucking corrupt insider that is not likable."

Then I step back and think, holy fuck, she is the most qualified presidential candidate in over a century (maybe ever), and is a centrist with colleagues on both sides of the aisle that have historically considered her imminently competent and motivated to solve problems she is confronted with for the good of the Country. More significantly, she has literally spent her entire life in service of the public.

There are these two stories of Hillary Clinton and the truth is probably somewhere in between. Campaign cycles just present the public with the worst story for a candidate and ask the public to decide how much they believe that story. It certainly can be frustrating. The result is that politicians with shorter track records of public service have a serious advantage. This isn't a good thing in my opinion. However, an advantage is that fucking crazy people get fully vetted eventually and can't just waltz into the White House with a few convincing months of PR savvy.

I'm just rambling now, but I think what I am trying to say is that no "preferable" candidates truly stay preferable to a large swath of America through the presidential election grinder. Also, it makes me so angry that being a public servant for any period of time is counted as a demerit in public elections. This country should celebrate public service, not demean it is a pathway to cronyism and insider dealing. I think that widespread sentiment, in itself, drives away a lot of intelligent qualified individuals who might serve.

 

[NCCUknow]

I'd probably be cool with a rule that said you can only be President if you have served over six years in Congress or at least two terms as a State governor.

 

[physicsfactor]

Man, I'm like the complete opposite of you. I despise lifelong politicians and don't believe any of them are in it for "public service". They are in it for power, money, and other benefits. Hillary is looking out for Hillary. She doesn't GAF about the general public any more than Trump does IMO. However, I do agree that someone completely politically green becoming president probably isn't a good idea in most situations.

 

[NCCUknow]

Man, I'm like the complete opposite of you. I despise lifelong politicians and don't believe any of them are in it for "public service". They are in it for power, money, and other benefits. Hillary is looking out for Hillary. She doesn't GAF about the general public any more than Trump does IMO. However, I do agree that someone completely politically green becoming president probably isn't a good idea in most situations.

The thing is, people who are politicians for a long time can almost always make much more money by leaving the public life and could have done so years ago. I dunno, I've spent a lot of time around senators and congressmen and found those who had been there the longest to care the most about doing good. I think its all a stupid narrative. Clearly that power has the ability to corrupt, but it just doesn't happen that often.

All of that being said, I would change fundraising laws if I could such that a politician can only accept donations from money flowing out of his district or state and such that corporate contributions are severely capped. I think it would help.

Look at it this way, why the fuck would you stay a congressman for 20 years when you can leave after one or two terms and make a minimum of 400-500k as a partner at a AmLaw100 law firm? Or join a consulting firm and make more? or join a lobbying firm and make more? These are options for all these guys. They get the offers constantly. Ego clearly plays a part in many staying, but ego doesn't lead to 6 figure paycuts very often. The same is true in the private sector. Money matters more and these guys turn it down allllllll the time. Why? The fucking care. They really do. We see them through the filter of 24-hour news but that is just Kabuki. Behind closed doors, most politicians are very different.

 

[physicsfactor]

Maybe my thinking is too conspiratorial, but I think they are getting money/benefits in other ways. Plus, I really do think it's the ego/power trip of it all that keeps most of them in the game for a lifetime. If they get out of Congress and take a job at some law firm, they aren't the big name with all the influence anymore. I'm sure there's a social circle aspect of it too. They like being "insiders" or whatever.

I know I haven't met nearly as many big time politicians as you, but the ones I know (or the ones who have staffers I know) are mostly motivated by factors other than the greater good.

 

[deeyoukayeee]

I have more than a passing acquaintance with quite a few well-known politicians through Duke connections and an extended family that has extremely active in VA and SC politics for decades. To say that 'the greater good' is the driving factor in their endeavors is as laughable as saying 'the greater good' is my driving factor for growing my company because it creates more job. In both cases if society benefits, so much the better, but the ultimate motivation is far more selfish. Almost to a one, these are people who derive great satisfaction from wielding power and the self-importance that goes with it. BTW, this includes several elected family members. I have a friend from Duke who is the definition of 'career politician' in Kentucky - with some success. I can attest to the fact that he has almost zero closely held convictions, and simply wants to be the guy who runs things. Has been like that since I met him freshman year.

As far as money goes, while it may be true that it is being left on the table by some pols, many would also cringe at the day-to-day hard work the private sector requires. And in today's political world, banking 10-20 years in 'public service' is the surest down payment on an extremely lucrative, cush job at Patton Boggs, Carlyle, etc. My former Congressman Eric Cantor, after one of the humiliating defeats the last half century of US politics, is absolutely rolling in the dough.

 

[dub_seahawks]

I have more than a passing acquaintance with quite a few well-known politicians through Duke connections and an extended family that has extremely active in VA and SC politics for decades. To say that 'the greater good' is the driving factor in their endeavors is as laughable as saying 'the greater good' is my driving factor for growing my company because it creates more job. In both cases if society benefits, so much the better, but the ultimate motivation is far more selfish. Almost to a one, these are people who derive great satisfaction from wielding power and the self-importance that goes with it. BTW, this includes several elected family members. I have a friend from Duke who is the definition of 'career politician' in Kentucky - with some success. I can attest to the fact that he has almost zero closely held convictions, and simply wants to be the guy who runs things. Has been like that since I met him freshman year.

As far as money goes, while it may be true that it is being left on the table by some pols, many would also cringe at the day-to-day hard work the private sector requires. And in today's political world, banking 10-20 years in 'public service' is the surest down payment on an extremely lucrative, cush job at Patton Boggs, Carlyle, etc. My former Congressman Eric Cantor, after one of the humiliating defeats the last half century of US politics, is absolutely rolling in the dough.

This is my view. The people that prioritize serving the public are the people at the bottom (and those who have advanced through the years). The social worker who has a shitty job but continues to do it despite better alternatives. The nurse who works graveyard shifts in the ER. The geriatric aide that changes adult diapers 50 times a day. The police officer who serves in times such as these - definitely those in Detriot, Chicago, etc.

I don't put politicians, especially career politicians, in the same category.

 

[ZackM]

I know a few police officers in Detroit...they don't fit with nurses that work the graveyard shift or geriatric aides. These guys are Grade A assholes that do nothing but fuck with people for their own deranged pleasure.

Obviously not true of all police officers, but much too high of a rate for me to group them with other admirable public servants.

 

[deepdarkblue]

One of my ex-wives comes from a cop family - dad, brothers, uncle, grandfather, all cops. Get-togethers at the in-laws was nothing but cops. And me. Maybe it's partly because I rather enjoy skating along on the wrong edge of the law from time to time, but to me they were some of the most insufferable people I've ever been forced to be around. Mostly I felt like they enjoyed their work for all the wrong reasons. I don't miss them and evidently neither does my ex, as she pretty much severed ties with all but her mother some years back.

 

[NCCUknow]

Bunch of cynical pessimists, all of ya

 

[rhfarmer]

NCCU, I agree that HRC is incredibly qualified to be president. Like, just based on her qualifications vs Trump's qualifications, it's a no brainer to me, Does she do some incredibly weird things that make her seem above the law (email server?), above all of us? Yes. Does she take DNC contributions and give them to her own golf club? No.

Trump has zero interest in governing this country. The fact that this presidential contest isn't already a 20 point lead for HRC shows me that many, many people are not seeing the forest for the trees.

Yes, both candidates are flawed. But one of them actually wants to run the country.

 

[bdotling]

I know a few police officers in Detroit...they don't fit with nurses that work the graveyard shift or geriatric aides. These guys are Grade A assholes that do nothing but fuck with people for their own deranged pleasure.

Obviously not true of all police officers, but much too high of a rate for me to group them with other admirable public servants.

And Cmon

 

[deepdarkblue]

uncy will probably be a perfectly nice police officer. He'll resign after a couple of years and join the Peace Corps.

 

[dub_seahawks]

So knowing "a few police officers" is enough data to determine there is a high rate of "Grade A assholes" in a metropolitan police department with 3,210 law enforcement officers?

I actually could see a different personality type signing up to police an area like that though. Knowing it's going to be dangerous, fast paced, grimy, and messy, in a place like Detriot, likely attracts a certain type of person that is drawn to conflict. I don't know why that would be attractive to anyone. I'm black and would never think about being a cop in Detriot. Maybe if I didn't have a family and didn't care about my safety.

 

[ZackM]

So knowing "a few police officers" is enough data to determine there is a high rate of "Grade A assholes" in a metropolitan police department with 3,210 law enforcement officers?

Well...yeah.

100% of Detroit police officers that I know or have interacted with objectively sucked as people.

I personally know 3 of them. I have had an interaction with 3 others. 6 for 6.

Based on simple probability, odds are that the number of Grade A assholes is not insignificant.

 

[dub_seahawks]

Well...yeah.

100% of Detroit police officers that I know or have interacted with objectively sucked as people.

I personally know 3 of them. I have had an interaction with 3 others. 6 for 6.

Based on simple probability, odds are that the number of Grade A assholes is not insignificant.

I don't think you fully understand the Central Limit Theorem.

 

[ZackM]

Well...yeah.

100% of Detroit police officers that I know or have interacted with objectively sucked as people.

I personally know 3 of them. I have had an interaction with 3 others. 6 for 6.

Based on simple probability, odds are that the number of Grade A assholes is not insignificant.

I don't think you fully understand the Central Limit Theorem.

Uhhh...lol

 

[NCCUknow]

Not that this is a surprise to anybody, but it appears that Trump drafted his own medical letter from his doctor and simply had the doctor sign it.


I mean, lol

 

[aiw]

I love that that doctor's letterhead still has the name of his long-dead father as top billing.

That man is an embarrassment to gastroenterologists.

Also, the last sentence of the article I read quotes the doctor as saying that he likes Trump because he thinks "Trump likes me". WTF?

 

[DrKlahn]