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Duke Basketball 2018-2019

I’m done with that. Lock this thread.

Weird. I harbored no ill will towards you. The fact you looked up my Twitter and felt the need to post those tweets seems oddly personal.

I could bump tons of posts from you and others and laugh at how wrong they were. The fact of the matter is I was far closer to being correct than the people who said Zion couldn't play or that we'd lose 7-8 conference games.

I considered you the smartest poster here and have talked you up over on 247 but this gives me serious pause.
No one GAF about how correct anyone is here. We shoot the shit and try to figure out how Duke basketball works, and we laugh at ourselves when we’re wrong. The more wrong, the more hilarious. There is no contest to be right, and if someone were right all the time here, we would pity that person for wasting his talent of being right all the time by posting on a Duke basketball message board. If you ever get that social construct here, I’m sure you will be welcomed by the asshole moderators on this site, whom I join you in disliking.
 
No one GAF about how correct anyone is here. We shoot the shit and try to figure out how Duke basketball works, and we laugh at ourselves when we’re wrong. The more wrong, the more hilarious. There is no contest to be right, and if someone were right all the time here, we would pity that person for wasting his talent of being right all the time by posting on a Duke basketball message board. If you ever get that social construct here, I’m sure you will be welcomed by the asshole moderators on this site, whom I join you in disliking.

Firm but fair.
 
I'm still infuriated at how we lost this game. After a sluggish start we go up 30-21 late in the first half, are seemingly poised to blow MSU out, and then RJ throws that horrific entry pass to Zion, who committs a stupid foul going for a steal. Then we get outscored 13-0 over the last 5 minutes of the first half, with the offense looking as putrid as it ever has under K. We had the chance to put the game away early and completely blew it.

Last minute was also a comedy of errors. Up three and we give up five quick points, while not using up ANY of the four fouls we had to give, which would have forced MSU to burn clock, likely thrown them out of sync, and at worst, meant that we'd have sent them to the line for a 1n1 while down a point with 5 seconds left. That and not making sure Zion touched the ball on the last three possessions was coaching malpractice by K.

It's also sickening that we kept throwing those horrific entry passes to Zion that MSU clearly knew were coming and picked off like six times, and lost the turnover battle 17 to 7, to a team that had been awful both at holding onto the ball and forcing TOs all year.

I'm just venting here, and I know this post is basically rehashing what we've been screaming about for the last four hours, but God fucking DAMN. This was a much worse choke than the Kansas game last year, and was easily our worst NCAAT loss since UConn 2004. We had no business losing this game, and had about as good a FF draw as we could have hoped for awaiting us.

FUCK COACH K, we are never making another Final Four or winning #6 with him at the helm. This was our last chance.
 
I can live with players making mistakes or getting outplayed. But this team had no business losing to MSU. K fooled us by making Zion the #1 option for most of the tournament. Then he shat all over us by pulling Zion out of his post-ups at the end of the game and not running plays to get him the ball when it counted most.

Also infuriating that we didn't go all out for steals the last 1:30 to get MSU closer to the bonus. K actually used Goldwire to do something similar in another game. Not the same situation, obviously, but at least it shows he had a vague understanding of the concept.

K said in the post game presser that this team deserved more. But I doubt he actually realizes what kept them from getting it.
 
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I can live with players making mistakes or getting outplayed. But this team had no business losing to MSU. K fooled us by making Zion the #1 option for most of the tournament. Then he shat all over us by pulling Zion out of his post-ups at the end of the game and not running plays to get him the ball when it counted most.

Trying to get the ball to Zion in those post-ups was the cause of at least three of our second-half turnovers -- at least two from R.J. and one from Tre.
 
I can live with players making mistakes or getting outplayed. But this team had no business losing to MSU. K fooled us by making Zion the #1 option for most of the tournament. Then he shat all over us by pulling Zion out of his post-ups at the end of the game and not running plays to get him the ball when it counted most.

Trying to get the ball to Zion in those post-ups was the cause of at least three of our second-half turnovers -- at least two from R.J. and one from Tre.
It's not like K couldn't (theoretically, of course) have drawn something up to get Zion good post position. Or get him the ball in the high post if he was concerned about entry passes.
 
If you want another dose of depression this morning, look at how open Zion is cutting to the basket on the last play RJ got fouled on.
 
WASHINGTON — They wanted to be together. A few years ago, these four sensational freshmen had been strangers scattered across North America. Then, in fits and starts, they formed friendships. They shared meals at AAU tournaments in South Carolina or roomed together at USA Basketball camps in Colorado Springs. And then, beginning in the fall of 2017, Tre Jones, Cam Reddish, RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson committed—not only to Duke but also to each other.

Any of them would have been the prized recruit for almost any college basketball team. Jones was the Russian nesting doll of his brother Tyus, who had guided Duke to a national championship in 2015. Reddish was the do-everything wing who some thought would wind up the most talented NBA player of the four. Barrett was the consensus No. 1 player in the country. And Williamson was a human highlight reel who would soon exhaust every basketball compliment in the English language. When they played together, they were more than just the collection of their talents. They carried with them the invincibility of youth.

They had good reason to believe in themselves. When all of them were healthy in the regular season, they only lost once—to Gonzaga, by two, on a neutral court. And in the NCAA tournament, back-to-back near-death experiences against UCF and Virginia Tech had only bolstered their belief that they couldn't be beaten. That's why Jones was confident throughout the Michigan State game Sunday, even as the lead changed 16 times, and even as the Spartans' Kenny Goins hit a go-ahead three with 34 seconds left. "I thought we were still gonna win the game," he said, "no matter what."

And that's also why, when the game was over, Jones broke down. With eight seconds left, Duke got the ball with a chance to win or tie. Barrett drove and got fouled. He missed the first of a pair of potentially game-tying free throws and then accidentally made the second. After a quick foul, the Duke bench knew that with just four team fouls on the half and less than five seconds left in the game, there wouldn't be enough time to play catch up. Duke's dream season became steal or bust. And then Michigan State star Cassius Winston cleanly caught the inbound pass at full stride and streaked, untouched, up the court. Winston hurled the ball into the rafters as the victory was finalized: Michigan State 68, Duke 67. At the buzzer, Jones bent down at the waist and put his hands to his face to cover the tears.

Jones was so out of sorts that, later in the locker room, he couldn't recall which teammates had come to console him. But there was never any doubt: It was Reddish and Williamson. They walked back to the locker room and listened, for the final time, to a postgame speech from coach Mike Krzyzewski. He told them he knew it was a bitter end. He told them he was proud of them. He told them that it wouldn't hurt like this forever.


But it was hard for any of them to hear.

"You just look around the locker room and see your teammates, your brothers," Williamson said. "And you think: This group of guys will probably never play together again."

On Friday night, after the win over Virginia Tech, Williamson, Jones and Barrett had all but bounced out of the locker room and down the hall into the press conference. On the way back, they'd been shoulder to shoulder, taking up nearly the entire width of the hallway in the concrete tunnel. But on Sunday night, they were separated. Jones fought back tears from his locker. Williamson walked a few strides ahead of Barrett on the way to the press conference, and, on the way back, they both nodded half-heartedly in response to passersby who congratulated them on a great season.

A dozen reporters were waiting on Williamson's return, and he slipped through them to sit. "I don't think anyone will ever understand our bond," he said. "People were saying we wouldn't do this and we wouldn't do that. I think we exceeded all their expectations. I'm very proud of my brothers. It was a hell of a season. ...Our bond is something you build when you go to war together."

A second group stood around Barrett. "I'm gonna want that ball every time," he told them. "I came up short today, but I'm going to have other opportunities."

As the reporters left Barrett's locker, he sat by himself fiddling with his phone. Junior reserve Justin Robinson—who had already showered and changed into his sweats—sat down next to him, put his hand on his shoulder and whispered to him to pick his head up. "Fuck!" Barrett muttered. "That season was way too quick. It was way too quick."

"No regrets," Robinson responded. "As soon as you leave this locker room, no more sadness."

The locker room had almost cleared out. A reporter asked Williamson to give advice to his young fans, and he told them that they should always keep their heads up and that "every loss might take you to a bigger win." Another asked him to describe Duke's season in one word. He said it was like a movie—only with an ending he didn't like. And then, the only questions left were the ones they asked themselves, the ones that they'll no doubt ask themselves in the weeks, months and years ahead: What could we have done differently? What could have I done differently?

In a few weeks, they'll finish their semester at Duke and go their separate ways to train and prepare for the NBA draft. And then, in June, they'll be sent to separate cities, spread across North America just like they were when they found each other. Back then, they were just kids who didn't fully believe that losses like this would one day come. Now they had that youthful invincibility had left them. They were learning about the inevitability of loss, and about how pain is more bearable when it's shared.

Their lockers were right next to each other—Williamson, then Reddish, then Jones, then Barrett. As the last reporters walked out, they were all still in uniform right next to each other. It would never be like this again, and they knew it. For a few more minutes, they wanted to remain together.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...man-distraught-to-see-their-time-together-end

This makes it sound like none of them (even Tre) ever planned on returning for a second season at Duke.
 
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Also - Cam Reddish is the reason this team never fully blossomed. Honestly - inexcusable from a top 5 draft pick to have this type of season.

I just honestly saw no improvement from start - end of the year from Cam.
 
Also - Cam Reddish is the reason this team never fully blossomed. Honestly - inexcusable from a top 5 draft pick to have this type of season.

I just honestly saw no improvement from start - end of the year from Cam.

It's not Cam's fault he was ranked so highly. Evan Daniels is just a terrible evaluator who also had E.J. Montgomery over Zion and had to issue a public apology after the Kentucky game for missing so badly.
 


The only assertion in this that immediately seemed somewhat debatable is the last line about this being the least successful segment of the K era. If Kyrie's arrival is the starting point, which seems to be what Tjarks is doing, then I guess there's an argument. But on the whole, I think the 00s were weaker than the 10s.
 
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It's a good summation of how most of us seem to be feeling but, yeah, the statement about eras is not great. You can't throw this year in with the Kyrie year, for example. That team was led by seniors in addition to hypothetical healthy Kyrie. I wouldn't even include the Rivers or Jabari teams in the latest era, and certainly not the 2013 team. And then you have the wrench of the 2016 team, which also probably shouldn't be thrown in with 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, though it's at least arguable that Derryck Thornton and Chase Jeter were elite OAD recruits to go with Ingram, which is laughable in retrospect but was reasonable before seeing Thornton and Jeter play college basketball. The era should be 2015-2019 IMO, and I doubt that has been the least successful 5-year stretch of K's career by any metric. I would say 2011-2014 was another era in itself, which did suck and could be considered the worst 4-year stretch based on what you're emphasizing.
 
Since 2015, Duke and Kentucky have nearly identical tournament resumes - two Elite Eights, one Sweet 16, and a second round exit - despite Duke having had a vast talent advantage. The last three years have burnt me out so much as a fan. I haven't felt this down about Duke basketball in a long time. Even after the 2012 and 2014 disasters, we had good players returning, thus giving me hope for the next season. I have none for 2020.
 
In my 29 years as a Duke fan this is the ultimate kick in the nuts. It makes Kentucky in ‘98 feel like a leg cramp. With all that is going on with Tre’s Mom, the stars aligned for him to honor her by going home to the Final Four and the local hero from my area going to my favorite school and falling just short and no matter how many National Championships we win Zion won’t be on any of the teams, he will be an NBA HOF’er, win X amount of rings, retire and come home and own a restaurant or some business and tell of his Great career but he will have one hole in his resume of never going to the Final Four that was not his fault at all and he was robbed of a once in a lifetime opportunity by his own coach. I thought long and hard about deactivating my account last night and would have cried right after the game if not for my Valium controlling my emotions and not letting me. Sorry for going all Slap The Floor mode but Fuck if life just isn’t fair sometimes!
 
If I had to divide K’a career into eras, I’d go 86-94 as era I, 7 FF, 5 title games, 2 Titles, 96-04 as era II, 1 E8, 3 FF, 2 title games, 1 title, 05 to 13 as era III, 1E8, 1FF, 1 title, 2014- era IV, so far 2E8, 1FF, 1 title.
 

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