UNC Basketball 2014-2015 Discussion Thread

[DurhamSon]

I wonder to what extent they would vacate wins. I mean theoretically if there were ineligible players from 2004-2010, they could wipe out everything. Not sure the NCAA would go that far. But would Roy even stay if he was back to 0 titles, -3 finals fours, and hundreds of win overall fewer?

 

[uncy12]

Think that they take the 05 banner, and consider that the end of it.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Clearly my opinion would change if Duke were the school in question or if the school in question were not our biggest rival, but altering records of the past doesn't seem like enough punishment, from either a deterrence or a retribution standpoint. Other programs aren't going to shy away from cheating if they see the only punishment is vacating past accomplishments. You reap the benefits of those accomplishments for years and it doesn't hurt you going forward too much. UNC will continue pulling in great recruits even if the 2005 title is taken away. Recruits saw UNC win that title. Fans enjoyed seeing UNC win that title. The players and Roy enjoyed that experience, vacating the end result doesn't change any of that. It doesn't punish UNC much at all in the present.

The fair punishment that would deter other programs from doing this and impose harm on UNC somewhat equal to the benefits gained seems to be canceling the next 2-3 seasons of all programs involved and stripping all scholarships for that time period. The current players can transfer without restriction and play immediately.

Brice would come to Duke.

 

[uncy12]

Well I think football is going to get absolutely destroyed. Doesn't seem as much for basketball so I really doubt there are sanctions beyond vacating win.

 

[uncy12]

Never going to happen but UNC probably should throw that 05 banner as a sacrificial lamb.

 

[physicsfactor]

I wonder to what extent they would vacate wins. I mean theoretically if there were ineligible players from 2004-2010, they could wipe out everything. Not sure the NCAA would go that far. But would Roy even stay if he was back to 0 titles, -3 finals fours, and hundreds of win overall fewer?

I assume that would put Duke would past UNC for third in most wins in men's basketball history.

 

[ZackM]

Death Penalty is the obvious corrective action.

 

[rhfarmer]

Death Penalty is the obvious corrective action.

If it wasn't UNC, this would be he headline. 2 decades of systemic academic fraud would bury most D1 basketball and football programs. I think, due to our fandom, we are being too careful with our opinions.

 

[Pantone287]

Well I think football is going to get absolutely destroyed. Doesn't seem as much for basketball so I really doubt there are sanctions beyond vacating win.

I know I'm in the tiny, tiny minority here, but this would make me immensely happier than having only the basketball program get wrecked. Happy week for me.

I just hope it actually has an effect this time. They came out of the last "punishment" recruiting better than ever.

 

[Slap the Floor]

I think UNC football takes the brunt of this.

UNC basketball will skate, relatively speaking.

 

[DurhamSon]

 

[deepdarkblue]

I don't want to get my hopes up here. I'm going to assume nothing happens beyond some strongly worded, meaningless statements from the NCAA. If I get more than that from all this, I'll just be giddy.

 

[DurhamSon]

I don't want to get my hopes up here. I'm going to assume nothing happens beyond some strongly worded, meaningless statements from the NCAA. If I get more than that from all this, I'll just be giddy.

Something is going to happen. I don't know if it will be LOIC/death penalty, but the amount of press this is getting and the duration of scope of the violations means something will happen.

The organization might as well not exist if it can be so thoroughly documented that a university could have a system running for 18 doing this shit and not face any consequences at all if caught. The punishment might be more of a FU for getting caught and embarrassing the NCAA then for any actual wrongdoing.

 

[physicsfactor]

I imagine all sports but basketball will be hit hard.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Roy announced today that he will be returning to Phog to be celebrated for all he has done at Kansas and amateur athletics as a whole.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... -tar-heels

 

[bdotling]

"I haven't actually been in Allen Fieldhouse since the last practice before we went to the Final Four in 2003," Williams told the Kansas City Star. "I've said this, and I really believe this from the bottom of my soul: I think it's the greatest home-court advantage in college basketball and maybe in any sport, whatsoever."

He knows a wine and cheese crowd when he sees one

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

I don't want to get my hopes up here. I'm going to assume nothing happens beyond some strongly worded, meaningless statements from the NCAA. If I get more than that from all this, I'll just be giddy.

Something is going to happen. I don't know if it will be LOIC/death penalty, but the amount of press this is getting and the duration of scope of the violations means something will happen.

The organization might as well not exist if it can be so thoroughly documented that a university could have a system running for 18 doing this shit and not face any consequences at all if caught. The punishment might be more of a FU for getting caught and embarrassing the NCAA then for any actual wrongdoing.

I am pretty cynical all the time, but this seems like the right take on the matter at this point. Can still be harsh and not hit bball I suppose, though. I think IC has gone from "this is nothing, we are fine" to "we actually may be in trouble here" in the last 18 hours or so.

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

Clearly my opinion would change if Duke were the school in question or if the school in question were not our biggest rival, but altering records of the past doesn't seem like enough punishment, from either a deterrence or a retribution standpoint. Other programs aren't going to shy away from cheating if they see the only punishment is vacating past accomplishments. You reap the benefits of those accomplishments for years and it doesn't hurt you going forward too much. UNC will continue pulling in great recruits even if the 2005 title is taken away. Recruits saw UNC win that title. Fans enjoyed seeing UNC win that title. The players and Roy enjoyed that experience, vacating the end result doesn't change any of that. It doesn't punish UNC much at all in the present.

The fair punishment that would deter other programs from doing this and impose harm on UNC somewhat equal to the benefits gained seems to be canceling the next 2-3 seasons of all programs involved and stripping all scholarships for that time period. The current players can transfer without restriction and play immediately.

Brice would come to Duke.

I don't really agree with this part (recognizing that some of this post seems to be parody but I believe first paragraph is serious in full. Fans in the Duke/UNC rivalry often measure things in championships. I guess you could get into an endless existential debate about whether they "won" the title once it's vacated. And I get that '05 will be ten years ago this season such that they've had a long period to enjoy their title. But for the purposes of historical achievement, I think fans close to the rivalry would be able to legitimately say K > Roy PLUS Dean, which is a pretty big deal. I don't think of Lance Armstrong as having won any Tours de France at this point. I know I would have been pretty annoyed if the 2010 title was stripped because of Lance Thomas. I guess I just consider stripping a title and having to take down a banner as actually losing all "credit" for winning a national championship, which is an incredible accomplishment, the beauty of which is that it is (supposed to be) cherished forever.

I would be very happy with (i) stripping their title in '05 and (ii) substantial punishments in football re: scholarships and bowls. Frankly IDGAF what happens to their other sports because I don't follow them, but it would be nice to see justice was served where appropriate. I think (i) would hasten Roy's retirement.

The '05 title was a sham and deserves to be thought of as such in posterity.

 

[Pantone287]

Expanded:

As a former compliance director at Maryland, former president of the National Association of Academic Advisors for Athletics and now president of the Drake Group, Gerald Gurney has studied literally every academic fraud case and how it was adjudicated by the NCAA since 1953. He is the preeminent scholar on the topic and when Gurney spoke with ABC11 Thursday, he pulled no punches when it came to North Carolina and the sanctions they may face...

...Still, Gurney said what happened at Carolina over 18 years trumps it all

"The worst case in the history," Gurney said. "There is nothing that even comes close to the level and the magnitude of this case."

Gurney says UNC's complete lack of oversight is inexcusable in this case and points to one of the most dreaded phrases in the NCAA lexicon.

"That would likely bring you a violation of lack of institutional control," he said.

 

[DrKlahn]

Stripping titles won't be effective until they have the technology to go back and alter the game footage so that Allan Ray's travel isn't called.